tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post1167565100158790736..comments2024-03-29T12:46:22.235+00:00Comments on Capitalists@Work: Tornado and Other Amazing Old AircraftCityUnslickerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-91608783057447213562015-08-10T10:37:12.146+01:002015-08-10T10:37:12.146+01:00brilliant sign off SW! brilliant sign off SW! CityUnslickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-43304154020130992562015-08-08T12:56:08.995+01:002015-08-08T12:56:08.995+01:00My favourite daft British aircraft was the Blackbu...My favourite daft British aircraft was the Blackburn Beverley. It was like a block of flats with wings. The first time one landed in Australia the pilot proudly announced over the radio "the first landing by a Blackburn Beverley..." The Australian SATCO cut in over the radio: "Jesus Christ, mate. Did you build it yourself?"Sebastian Weetabixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-84843609235320755032015-08-07T19:32:36.336+01:002015-08-07T19:32:36.336+01:00Group Captain! I used to work for a living. (Well,...Group Captain! I used to work for a living. (Well, sort of. The blokes did the work, I just signed the forms and bore the heavy responsibility of worrying if the ruddy things would fall out of the sky, a worry assuaged only by gin and tonic.)<br /><br />Ah, the Shackleton... More rattle than a can of marbles and more noise than a dozen hercules put together, with those contra-rotating props. Rattle your teeth out. But everyone loved it, aircrew being strange people prone to burning pianos when pissed. Rumour has it that after 30+ years in service bits were filched off the gate guardians to keep the Shackletons in the air. <br /><br />The Tornado is a very fine aircraft (well, the GR versions are - the F3 was a horrifying piece of shit, what with the Blue Circle radar up front went it first went into service). But the problem is metal fatigue. They were "lifed" for 4,000 hours flying time, that is being driven properly, hard, fast and low. One of my old friends tells me the remaining airframes are mostly way over 6-7,000 hours now. That tells you two things: first, how good they are in engineering terms, as more than 50% over the design life is pushing it; secondly, we don't fly them in the way they were designed to be flown anymore (and probably shouldn't either). We had to do the low flying btw, because at the time they entered service it was the only way to penetrate Warsaw Pact defences. Gulf War 1 just showed how dangerous this is. The American way of using smart stand-off weapons is much better, and what with HARM missiles and all the rest of it allowing us to establish complete air superiority we don't need to creep under the radar at nought feet; which is why wishful thinkers & dreamers think we could bring back the Mosquito or Lancaster, forgetting MANPADs would wipe them out. <br /><br />I daresay BAe have the jigs hidden around somewhere and could make a few bits and bobs for the Tornado fleet at a suitably exorbitant price for the simple shoppers in Whitehall, but once the micro-cracks in the main spars start being major cracks, they're grounded forever, spares or not. That day is not that far off. But the RAF being the way it is, they'll keep flying them until they fall out of the sky, and senior officers will be shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you, and there will be boards of inquiry and some poor Jengo will be court-martialled. Sebastian Weetabixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-43331814590136523142015-08-07T17:27:31.159+01:002015-08-07T17:27:31.159+01:00Dan o/t but ...
There was a defense person on R4 ...<br />Dan o/t but ...<br /><br />There was a defense person on R4 (cant remember the program) last week who said ISIL still exists as a fighting force because they are not at the top of anyones list.<br /><br />- Turkey hate the kurds more, Saudis hate Iran more, Syrians hate the rebels more, Syrian rebels hate the Syrian gove more etc.<br /><br />However, I think last week's Economist said ISIL are starting to pop up in greater Russia...<br /><br />andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-9985971987546887162015-08-07T17:20:00.498+01:002015-08-07T17:20:00.498+01:00My Air Force friends were Nimrod pilots.
used to f...My Air Force friends were Nimrod pilots.<br />used to fly from Scotland to Afghanistan each day.<br /><br />They were furious when restrictions were placed on the aging aircraft after the crash in 2006. As one pilot told me..<br /><br />"So what if an engine warning light comes on? Half the lights flash on and off all day long..If its flying.. its fine"<br /><br />"What if an engine really does fail?"<br /><br />"We have more - We can fly from Kabul to Fort William on 2 engines 'nae bother. Just takes longer and we miss our tea. ..if it gets to one engine we just land somewhere else."Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-7381684374795049602015-08-07T16:49:52.375+01:002015-08-07T16:49:52.375+01:00sit a destroyer off the coast and blast the air de...<i>sit a destroyer off the coast and blast the air defences and runways with cruise missiles</i><br /><br />No, they sat a carrier group off the coast. It probably helps to have the carrier based air force to defend whatever you are launching the cruise missiles with from the enemy air force.<br /><br />But then one US carrier group is probably superior to almost any other nations navy and air force put together.Steven_Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029437876479574883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-30694886736292164302015-08-07T15:40:56.392+01:002015-08-07T15:40:56.392+01:00BQ - spot on
Mr Sumo - yup, persistency over targ...<b>BQ</b> - spot on<br /><br /><b>Mr Sumo</b> - yup, <i>persistency over target</i> is the new watchword<br /><br /><b>BE</b> - adverse cost-benefit analysis for all concerned, I should say: never any economies of scale and who needed to pay for a couple of saved hours? also the drinks trolley was ultra-limited, to save weight (it was a bloody amazing experience, though)<br /><br />ah, the Shackleton! - a great call, <b>Jim</b><br />(I once went for a very long flight in a Nimrod, that was pretty amazing too - & relatively comfortable: I am guessing the Shack would have been more like e.g. a Herc, which can be distinctly <b><i>un</i></b>comfortable)Nick Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670594203660051701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-31799263463402272462015-08-07T14:51:01.321+01:002015-08-07T14:51:01.321+01:00To be honest this is ISIL we're talking about,...To be honest this is ISIL we're talking about, a force that consists of young, semi-literate barbarians, not any sort of modern fighting force. You could probably manufacture Lancaster bombers and up-rate the avionics and bomb-aiming kit and have equal success against them.<br /><br />The honest fact is this: any time we want rid of ISIL/Islamic State, we can do it, as long as we're not too upset by carpet-bombing large areas with cluster munitions. ISIL do not have an air force, or any real anti-aircraft capability, and they are only really good at outrageous boasting on social media. <br /><br />Send in some decent Western soldiers to put some backbone into the native troops, back these up with decent air power, light armour and SIGINT and the only problem will be keeping up with the rate of retreat of ISIL troops.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02618328278732100203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-11387755185789452912015-08-07T14:05:04.327+01:002015-08-07T14:05:04.327+01:00The Shackleton had fairly decent career too - 40 y...The Shackleton had fairly decent career too - 40 years if wikipedia is to be believed. A piston engine plane that only made its debut when jets were already in the ascendency, and survived to the 90s.Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-47238905513755950682015-08-07T13:53:31.165+01:002015-08-07T13:53:31.165+01:00Similarly the romans had toilets, running water, a...<i>Similarly the romans had toilets, running water, aircon, central heating, refrigeration</i><br /><br />they also had concrete and underwater construction, which was <i>seriously</i> ahead of its time, and the secret was lost for a millenium<br /><br />the most amazing thing is that they <i>didn't</i> invent the wheelbarrow (and easily could have), which transforms building-site productivity, a true force-multiplier<br /><br />of course they had slaves instead ... but no-one wilfully spurns a tech innovation of such utility, certainly not the RomansNick Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670594203660051701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-52817749526678524902015-08-07T13:28:48.768+01:002015-08-07T13:28:48.768+01:00Happy to look into that over the weekend, Mr Q. It...Happy to look into that over the weekend, Mr Q. It ought to be a nice short post, because as any fule no, the world has been in steady decline ever since Suez.Blue Eyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16556174219724957585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-71238919201748516902015-08-07T13:26:16.205+01:002015-08-07T13:26:16.205+01:00It is not so much as the discovery of something.
T...It is not so much as the discovery of something.<br />The interesting moment is when it hits the mass market in a working form.<br /><br />viz smartphones<br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator" rel="nofollow">Nokia 9000</a> was really groundbreaking and quite excellent but...<br /><br />when someone says smartphone most see <br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone" rel="nofollow">an iphone </a>.<br /><br />Similarly the romans had toilets, running water, aircon, central heating, refrigeration in rome but it did not stick out in the barbarian world.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-62001362386877169502015-08-07T13:08:27.626+01:002015-08-07T13:08:27.626+01:00Advances in the last 20 years? Sounds like a good ...Advances in the last 20 years? Sounds like a good idea for a blog post.<br /><br />Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-65239381609474982182015-08-07T13:00:18.580+01:002015-08-07T13:00:18.580+01:00Wasn't the main problem with Concorde the lack...Wasn't the main problem with Concorde the lack of range? And second to that the inefficiency of the thing? It could only carry eight passangers (this is an exaggeration, for those of a sensitive disposition) plus champagne.<br /><br />If someone had built a Mach 2 craft that could have served the West Coast to Tokyo/Sydney/Beijing then things may have been different. Didn't the Yanks stay out because they wanted Mach 3?Blue Eyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16556174219724957585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-64129150624500309682015-08-07T12:29:45.425+01:002015-08-07T12:29:45.425+01:00Not just in aviation. We have made no advances in ...Not just in aviation. We have made no advances in 20 years, unless you count making things smaller. Mobile phones, computers, our wages...Lord Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-85943475960377767392015-08-07T12:21:26.621+01:002015-08-07T12:21:26.621+01:00Libya really showed that the bomber is dead.
sit...Libya really showed that the bomber is dead. <br /><br />sit a destroyer off the coast and blast the air defences and runways with cruise missiles. Send in drones to finish of anything that has been missed and get apaches or carrier based strike aircraft to swoop about busting any left over tanks. <br /><br />The typhoon isn't going to be a fighter bomber anytime soon. <br /><br />Trundling a couple of bombers from bases on another continent on constant costly air to air refueling to linger for 20 mins over the target gets you nowhere. SumoKinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02018901303892114091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-70546082772438406432015-08-07T12:18:16.860+01:002015-08-07T12:18:16.860+01:00IIRC the Tornado had a rocky start to Gulf war 1. ...IIRC the Tornado had a rocky start to Gulf war 1. 6 losses out of the coalition's 36 fixed wing combat casualties.<br />Wasn't it the RAF persisting with low level attack but the US Vietnam lessons keeping them high, away from ground fire?<br /><br />Due to cost, iirc. 1991 raf didn't have the precision munitions and guidance of the USAF. <br /><br />You will know better..this is mostly from memory and may be inaccurate.<br /><br />But Tornado has certainly done an awful lot better since then.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.com