tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post1177385832880959576..comments2024-03-28T09:55:42.123+00:00Comments on Capitalists@Work: Greek Tradegy edges towards the worst solutionCityUnslickerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-34767949780530697622012-02-08T10:59:50.399+00:002012-02-08T10:59:50.399+00:00Hovis: "there is far from any unanimity that ...Hovis: "there is far from any unanimity that Greece should stay in the Euro, no matter what the press tell you."<br /><br />I think we would all do well to be aware of that. It is pretty clear that news of what is actually going on in Greece seems to be stifled for some reason. Clearly this favours the EU/ECB/Merkozy triangle and its acolytes because they don't want the rest of us to know that they are causing a third-world style catastrophe in Greece in order to save their own skins. <br /><br />It has also become pretty clear that the newspapers that like to claim they are "anti-EU" like the Mail and the Sun have been stifling stories that they could actually use to stick the knife in - they haven't been as vocal in their condemnation of the "United-States of Europe" strategy of Merkel as the Telegraph, and have gone quiet on this kind of thing. They prefer to talk BS about straight bananas and avoid the meat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-75708009091790414552012-02-08T10:30:37.309+00:002012-02-08T10:30:37.309+00:00@ budgie: The real problem was the West convinced ...@ budgie: <i>The real problem was the West convinced itself that borrowing was "investment".</i><br /><br />God, yes, nailed it in one. And still it's done at local, national and international level. Not an evening goes by when there aren't reports of "investment" in this, that, and the damn other. It seems there are two major educational gaps in politicians and journos - first, the relative meanings of "investment" and "cost", and second, the works of Frederic Bastiat.<br /><br />Hang 'em all!formertorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-62176009221045282632012-02-08T01:39:33.455+00:002012-02-08T01:39:33.455+00:00Good article: the only bit I'd take issue with...Good article: the only bit I'd take issue with:<br />"Portugal will watch and see that it may as well default anyway as the benefits of not defaulting are Eurozone imposed austerity which is the price of defaulting too - so they may as well get on with it."<br />The Eurozone politicos have spent three years doing absolutely everything *except* "getting on with it"; I think it unlikely they're going to change tack now. Procrastination, thy names are Merkel, Sarkozy, von Rompuy, Barroso, ...Hopperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13548829473468337487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-14911252137821090622012-02-07T23:03:43.331+00:002012-02-07T23:03:43.331+00:00Greece will stop running a primary budget deficit ...Greece will stop running a primary budget deficit this year. At that point it will selectively default, and there will be nothing the Germans can do about it.<br /><br />I am amazed their taxpayers are sanguine about this backdoor transfer.BlackRavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05896472586470597474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-89718503050555239352012-02-07T15:27:08.678+00:002012-02-07T15:27:08.678+00:00Anon - read the article. the internal damage will ...Anon - read the article. the internal damage will be huge to Greek companies - not the state, the state will be fine. Problem is all their taxes will dry up as companies with Euro debt go under - Companies don't have these handy get out of jail free Soveriegn default laws. <br /><br />When the Greeks have no tax, the Government will need to take on debt - which only could come from the EU.CityUnslickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-57435778258597894922012-02-07T14:33:01.326+00:002012-02-07T14:33:01.326+00:00Perhaps there is a grasp in the recesses of the mi...Perhaps there is a grasp in the recesses of the mind but they can't admit reality because of the indicated action required.James Highamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14525082702330365464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-63908905564662437162012-02-07T14:00:47.442+00:002012-02-07T14:00:47.442+00:00Andrew, I hear what you are saying but the pedant ...Andrew, I hear what you are saying but the pedant in me has to point out Cyprus whilst a basket case, (and full of Russian Mafia money) is a totally independent from Greece, so despite cultural ties they'll be the one's having to defend themselves.hovisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-43771790499020907172012-02-07T13:10:20.086+00:002012-02-07T13:10:20.086+00:00as poster above pointed out, the zerohedge article...as poster above pointed out, the zerohedge article is interesting.<br />basically if they do default, and leave the euro, if the govt ever sends any money abroad, chances are a bond holder will sue. they will be cut off from the rotw.<br />how do you defend cyprus if you cannot buy bullets or petrol?<br />wars start from this.<br />on the other hand, we may end up with the rbs owning a large lump of minos. this minor tear in the fabric of the eu is as good as it gets.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-44789515392099038972012-02-07T12:49:26.429+00:002012-02-07T12:49:26.429+00:00Barnacle Bill: I think you are viewing the situati...Barnacle Bill: I think you are viewing the situation through a prism of anglecism, Greece has differenet underlying dynamics.<br /><br />Anon: I agree with much of what you say - they need to and should default 100%. The one thing we often forget here in the UK is that the politico's are truly divorced from the populous, ( even more so than here) in their love for EU and teh Euro. SO any change to the situatin would really require a coup. <br /><br />Budgie: Of friend and family there I am getting mixed messages but even with the bilge on local media there is far from any unanimity that Greece should stay in the Euro, no matter what the press tell you.hovisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-46027377685196311432012-02-07T12:36:57.911+00:002012-02-07T12:36:57.911+00:00Good analysis, CU. There is no advantage in Greece...Good analysis, CU. There is no advantage in Greece leaving the euro, and the Greek people do not want to. This will all play out within the eurozone.<br /><br />The real problem was the West convinced itself that borrowing was "investment". The eurozone, the UK and the US are broke. Only time will heal, and then only if we stop overspending; and especially stop kidding ourselves.Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-55927319584811021432012-02-07T11:07:56.666+00:002012-02-07T11:07:56.666+00:00It is quite astonishing that the Greeks continue t...It is quite astonishing that the Greeks continue to play this silly game when they are holding all the cards. Defaulting is the obvious course for them as the ECB is holding all the debt at punitive rates and refuses to write any of it off. Maybe they have grasped this and are only trying to give the impression of complying when they know they cannot do so. <br /><br />Of course the Greeks are already paying a heavy price for taking out so much debt. The Germans and the French also need to pay the price for lending so recklessly. So far the French and Germans have avoided paying for their reckless lending, and will only do so when Greece et al do indeed default.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-37865597185347953152012-02-07T11:03:55.283+00:002012-02-07T11:03:55.283+00:00Hi there- a regular reader here. i enjoy your post...Hi there- a regular reader here. i enjoy your posts, but would respectfully point you towards a zerohedge article on this topic:<br />http://www.zerohedge.com/news/subordination-101-walkthru-sovereign-bond-markets-post-greek-default-world<br />The Euro priced bonds are still for the most part governed under Greek law, so internal damage could be mitigated in the event of a Euro withdrawal. This might change with any future "bailout".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-3524790666361679092012-02-07T10:40:39.917+00:002012-02-07T10:40:39.917+00:00I fear it may come to this as the politicians in t...I fear it may come to this as the politicians in the countries being forced to take the harsh medicine are showing a decidely yellow streak when it comes to confront the sheeple.<br />Who in turn are beginning to sense they might prevail.<br />Of course no-one will win but we might just be witnessing a European Spring.Barnacle Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17257546424880537005noreply@blogger.com