tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post1741109119782944954..comments2024-03-18T16:33:31.633+00:00Comments on Capitalists@Work: Brexit is Brexit: Contradiction is ContradictionCityUnslickerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-43058815555498642612018-03-03T21:19:42.833+00:002018-03-03T21:19:42.833+00:00The thing that is not properly discussed is that t...The thing that is not properly discussed is that there is a disconnect between the cost of housing and and zhc.<br />Employers like zhc as it gives them a lot of flexibility but from the employees pov if you don't know your income how do you know you can pay the rent every month.<br /><br /><br />andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-16564803727593130252018-03-03T16:04:13.978+00:002018-03-03T16:04:13.978+00:00"Tyranny is where you fail to enforce Working..."Tyranny is where you fail to enforce Working Time Directives so that people can work themselves to death on Zero Hours contracts."<br /><br />Notwithstanding the total logic fail of that statement, any fule kno that people on ZHCs generally work 15 hours a week, so that they don't lose their benefits.Charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-85349474404167142992018-03-03T08:32:00.490+00:002018-03-03T08:32:00.490+00:00Something I don't get about North is why he ha...Something I don't get about North is why he hasn't been Sectioned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-81679836045368934772018-03-03T01:54:32.774+00:002018-03-03T01:54:32.774+00:00Something I don't get about North is when he t...Something I don't get about North is when he talks about food safety (where he has actual experience) he clearly understands that the official rules and how they are interpreted, implemented, and abused on the ground is very different.<br /><br />So why is he such a pedant about everything else? He's spent so much time amongst Eurocrats he's ended up thinking like one.Knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-54449209188321899282018-03-02T22:28:35.410+00:002018-03-02T22:28:35.410+00:00“We don't need to fall back into triumphal ...“We don't need to fall back into triumphal 'Richard North' mode here, wearing a smug grin and shouting HaHa, You Cretins, HaHa! “<br /><br />Anybody’s guess is right.James Highamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14525082702330365464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-5210121665464577052018-03-02T20:59:28.616+00:002018-03-02T20:59:28.616+00:00"Like my fellow EU citizens, I'm off and ..."Like my fellow EU citizens, I'm off and you can wipe your own backsides while winging that it's all the EU's fault - even though they've long forgotten you."<br /><br />Already off by the sounds of it, BQ. <br /><br />I've met Brits living in Cyprus telling me that we made a really bad decision because they could no longer eat in Cypriot restaurants 5 times a week. <br /><br />Why should I care about people who have quit the country, or worse, quit the country when the vote doesn't go their way ?Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-27559750774773440462018-03-02T20:25:28.718+00:002018-03-02T20:25:28.718+00:00Tyranny is where you fail to enforce Working Time ...<i>Tyranny is where you fail to enforce Working Time Directives so that people can work themselves to death on Zero Hours contracts.</i><br /><br />If they work zero hours, how can they work themselves to death?<br />Anyone in the UK has the right to opt out of the working time directive. I do recall in the past being told to sign it or no job. But I haven't heard of that practice since most employers of low wage earners want them to work under 12 hours a week for national insurance saving purposes. Saves the employer a fortune if 4 workers work 12 hours than one working 48.<br /><br />The AVERAGE worker on zero hours works 20-30 hours a week. Very few work more than that.<br /><br /><i>Tyranny is where you fail to produce enough housing and then remove those in need for social support especially the disabled.</i><br /><br />And why is there not enough housing? Is it the half a million people arriving, year on year, for over ten years? <br />Is it planning law?<br />Is it the problems with mortgages<br />Buy to Let?<br /><br />What has any of that to do with 'The disabled'.<br /><br />Momentum is welcome here. But please try and have a logical argument. <br />Emotive ones are best left on comment is free.<br />Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-76622281988338275962018-03-02T19:46:37.614+00:002018-03-02T19:46:37.614+00:00"Personally I was against brexit as (I though..."Personally I was against brexit as (I thought then) we would be a bit worse off and (crucially) it solves none of the UK's real problems."<br /><br />True Andrew. The realy problem is cultural Marxism. The EU is a cover for it. <br /><br />The People got it half right in the referendum and yes. They WILL be disappointed. <br /><br />Given the opportunity it was my duty to vote out and I would do so again. Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-74936219385866428182018-03-02T19:08:59.540+00:002018-03-02T19:08:59.540+00:00Wow, nasty and spiteful, exactly like the EU commi...Wow, nasty and spiteful, exactly like the EU commission. It's precisely because of arseholes like you that I voted to get out. Fuck off and don't let the door hit you on the way out.<br />It may be a futile gesture, but I hope my vote may restore a little bit of democratic accountability to our government. The shits in parliament have contracted out the business of government to the EU while still pulling in full time pay for part time work. They have surrendered control of our borders and turned the UK into a vassal state.<br />No wonder the apparatchiks in parliament had a fit of the vapours when the referendum went the wrong way.<br />They can't pretend any more, they need to do the job they're being paid for or bugger off.<br />Unfortunately it just shows what a bunch of incompetents we've elected to parliament.<br /><br />BlokeInBrumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-8844840945212700912018-03-02T19:08:45.094+00:002018-03-02T19:08:45.094+00:00No: tyranny is when you cannot remove the governme...No: tyranny is when you cannot remove the government. Which is what the unelected EU commission is, since they have sole agency when it comes to proposing, amending and repealing laws and regulations. But they never do repeal one, do they? As Mr Juncker says, “there cannot be a democratic vote against the treaties”<br /><br />That’s tyranny, chum.Sebastian Weetabixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-29479431437797358362018-03-02T18:41:14.340+00:002018-03-02T18:41:14.340+00:00Tyranny is where you reduce the HoC to 600 by remo...Tyranny is where you reduce the HoC to 600 by removing backbench scrutiny.<br /><br />Tyranny is where you fail to enforce Working Time Directives so that people can work themselves to death on Zero Hours contracts. <br /><br />Tyranny is where you fail to produce enough housing and then remove those in need for social support especially the disabled. <br /><br />The sunny uplands as earlier described is a return to Victorian values and servitude. <br /><br />Like my fellow EU citizens, I'm off and you can wipe your own backsides while winging that it's all the EU's fault - even though they've long forgotten you.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-64988781957444101312018-03-02T17:15:23.469+00:002018-03-02T17:15:23.469+00:00Andrew - We are trying to avert tyranny.
What pr...Andrew - We are trying to avert tyranny. <br /><br />What price ?Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-13267897411313966572018-03-02T13:53:29.015+00:002018-03-02T13:53:29.015+00:00Roger,
Brexit is not falling apart under the wei...Roger, <br /><br />Brexit is not falling apart under the weight of it's contradictions, there are no contradictions, a (narrow) majority wants out and that's it.<br />The costs were made clear at the time.<br />The voters chose not to listen.<br />Personally I was against brexit as (I thought then) we would be a bit worse off and (crucially) it solves none of the UK's real problems. <br />Now it is done, the cost to democracy(*) of ignoring the vote and staying in or under the ECJ or keeping freedom of movement is too big even with all the costs implied.<br /><br />This is in the conscious knowledge that if we struggle really hard we might get out just a little worse off - any fule knos now that we will be worse off at best - and possibly a lot worse off and also have a lot of blood that will need washing off the streets.<br /><br />(*) Basically if Tony Blair thinks it is a good idea and it actually supports democratic institutions to keep asking until you get the right answer <br />then (a) it isn't and (b) the breathtaking hypocrisy of the war criminal.<br /><br />andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-80838432046607311602018-03-02T13:41:48.382+00:002018-03-02T13:41:48.382+00:00Have spent 3 days in Brussels. Have listened to ME...Have spent 3 days in Brussels. Have listened to MEPs, Embassy staff, consultants, EU staff and representatives of the legal profession. Bottom line is that the UK side is still bickering and have no plan. <br /><br />It's a car crash so follow the backers of No Deal Brexit and take a position on sterling as trashing the currency is the only way this is going to work.<br /><br />To put it in perspective. NI is smaller than Hampshire and if the leader of HCC was to stamp their foot would anyone pay attention. May and her team lost the plot a long time ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-62781670000883259102018-03-02T13:37:14.575+00:002018-03-02T13:37:14.575+00:00"The UK parliament has not had to think for i..."The UK parliament has not had to think for itself for the last 30 years or more. Fudge and muddle have been its only skill set."<br /><br />I am in agreement, Roger. <br /><br />So if we stay may we scrap the UK Parliament ? In atonement we could set a good example to the rest of the EU by being better Europeans than they are by entrusting our democracy entirely, root and branch to the EU Commission and Parliament. <br /><br />Who is your MEP btw ? Which European party do they belong to and which of their policies is your favourite ?<br /><br />Anyone who voted Remain should hold their MEP in the highest importance and know the workings of the EU at least as well as UK politics. I don't doubt you do btw. But the vast majority of Remainers don't. Nor do I but it's not me trying to sell it. <br /><br /><br /><br />Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-26645695055926738572018-03-02T13:07:04.156+00:002018-03-02T13:07:04.156+00:00Let's take a look at GBP/capita then Roger. P...Let's take a look at GBP/capita then Roger. Personally, I think the calculation of GDP is deeply flawed, but you've chosen it, so let's use it. The UK is currently 26th, according to the IMF, better than roughly 85% of all other countries. Above the likes of France, Belgium, Spain, Italy and all of the eastern bloc EU countries. Doing nowhere near as well as Ireland though, which is 5th. It must have fantastic living standards compared to the UK and be a magnet for the world's best and brightest, especially as they're not leaving the EU - except, no, wait, it's the other way round.<br /><br />Which average were you using again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-13912774073209855352018-03-02T12:48:00.775+00:002018-03-02T12:48:00.775+00:00Anon, just eyeball the world GDP/head numbers and...Anon, just eyeball the world GDP/head numbers and look up and down from the UK's position. Consider for a moment what credible changes would be needed to move up (or down) significantly. Explore the reasons why those countries richer than us are richer, there are good and usually non replicable reasons. We don't have an oil field handy nor a very rich neighbour. An approximate answer to the right question is infinitely more valuable than a precise answer to the wrong question, no spreadsheet needed.<br /><br />SW and Unslicker, the idea that the UK has some magical right to choose a pick-and-mix Brexit was always ludicrous. The UK parliament has not had to think for itself for the last 30 years or more. Fudge and muddle have been its only skill set. Now Brexit is forcing some clear legalistic thinking and the hand wavers cannot cope. The horrible reality of Brexit is now staring them in the face. Even a political Einstein could not make Brexit look good.<br /><br />Yes, the choice is binary, do as you are told or fall off a cliff. No wonder Mrs May is wriggling like a worm on a pin. So, for those who advocate falling off a cliff or leaving like a whipped cur I say show us the plan because remarkable claims require remarkable proofs. I am for staying put, no proofs needed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-19748249768247456912018-03-02T12:02:19.060+00:002018-03-02T12:02:19.060+00:00SW - correct, and the maths of parliament will for...SW - correct, and the maths of parliament will force her to go with BINO currently.<br /><br />Unless Barnier and Tusk present such a bullying position that she is able to Cry for Harry and England let's go! But that is not Mrs May. CityUnslickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-17687510459536426572018-03-02T10:53:21.026+00:002018-03-02T10:53:21.026+00:00Roger's comment is obviously a load of tosh, s...Roger's comment is obviously a load of tosh, since there *should* be a binary decision to make, which is 'in' (Customs union, ECJ, internal market, etc etc, complete with freedom of movement & paying in) or 'out' (not in the customs union, ECJ, internal market, etc etc, no freedom of movement, no paying in).<br /><br />The difficulty arises because our imbecile prime minister cannot make this simple binary choice and seeks some mythical 3rd way, which does not exist & cannot exist. Being an incorrigible trimmer, when presented with a binary choice she seeks to find middle ground. There isn't any. Sebastian Weetabixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-72649614483737492072018-03-02T10:14:37.621+00:002018-03-02T10:14:37.621+00:00Roger, by what measure are we doing "averagel...Roger, by what measure are we doing "averagely well" and how will it change post-Brexit? Where's your spreadsheet? Without that, your post is nonsense. I suspect it will still be nonsense even with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-53445802258112392572018-03-02T09:38:13.939+00:002018-03-02T09:38:13.939+00:00Amusing to watch Brexit falling apart under the we...Amusing to watch Brexit falling apart under the weight of its own contradictions. Sensible people would chuck it in the skip. Alternatively the leading Brexiteers could publish the brilliant business plan and spreadsheets they have prepared in readiness for Sunny Upland Britain. Won't happen, the hand wavers don't do Excel and there is no plan to show us.<br /><br />Sadly we won't chuck Brexit in the skip, what we will do is concoct some milk & water compromise that pleases no one and achieves less than nothing. The Brexiteers will whine and whine that they didn't get a fair crack and if only.... But if only what? With no plan how can they be given any sort of go at post Brexit Britain. So milk & water it is. After this Osborne's austerity will look quite pleasant.<br /><br />The snag is that the UK can only do averagely well inside the EU and will probably do less than averagely well outside. The options are not attractive either way. To deliver Sunny Uplands and a New Singapore style economy would require dramatic changes to our economy, infrastructure and social setup. Thankfully we don't yet have the dictator necessary to make that happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-3986935528114663442018-03-02T08:19:28.691+00:002018-03-02T08:19:28.691+00:00the translation proposed by our gracious host
eve...<i>the translation proposed by our gracious host</i><br /><br />everybody's right!<br /><br />o Mr Bigot is offering a literal translation<br /><br />o I was offering how it is usually rendered in colloquial English as a simplified version of its practical meaning. By "anything follows", we mean to add "... <i>including things that are so patently false, the starting-point can't be right - it is contradictory</i>". In formal logic:<br /><br />P -> (Q & -Q) ⊢ -P<br /><br />or: if P implies both Q and not-Q (i.e. from P, an impossibility flows), then not-P (i.e., P cannot be true: it is contradictory). The impossibility of both Q and not-Q at the same time is of course the <i>Law of the Excluded Middle</i>, namely ⊢ (P v -P)<br /><br />Let me conclude with the story of Bertrand Russell's encounter with someone who didn't understand. The dummie said, OK then if 6 equals 5, prove that Bertrand Russell is the Pope. To which Bertie replied: If 5 = 6, then 6-4 = 5-4. So 2 = 1. Russell and the Pope are two. Therefore Russell and the Pope are one!Nick Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670594203660051701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-26427112134335231882018-03-02T07:13:23.361+00:002018-03-02T07:13:23.361+00:00@Andrew: there has never been a single market in s...@Andrew: there has never been a single market in services. The EUs internal market has been very carefully constructed to benefit German manufacturers with no reciprocity for our strong service sector. <br /><br />Given trade deficit we run with the 27, if they want to cut off their nose to spite their collective face, we should face that scenario with total equanimity. Sebastian Weetabixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-74683053189297000452018-03-02T05:34:35.856+00:002018-03-02T05:34:35.856+00:00Well there is a contradiction in that Remainers sa...Well there is a contradiction in that Remainers say "We won't be able to cope without migrants" whilst telling us there won't be any jobs left. <br /><br />Why are we still importing so many young men ?<br /><br />I've always understood Andrew's point and it gives me chills. What use these jobs if the cost is the mass importation of poor people ?<br /><br />The state of national a personal debt is the only measure we need look at to see how disasterous this policy is. <br /><br />That's without mention that every issue, from housing to hospitals to schools to transport is in *crisis* according to the BBC. <br /><br />It is not Brexit voters who are having their cake and eating it but Remainers. <br /><br />They tell us that leaving the EU will lead us to poverty and yet remaining in it will not. <br /><br />Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-43675155996194171512018-03-02T01:30:24.110+00:002018-03-02T01:30:24.110+00:00Mr K, the earliest analyses know so far are from o...Mr K, the earliest analyses know so far are from our Grecian friends but reductio ad absurdum is a bit of ancient Iti, which I translated correctly. Examples given by anyone of any nationality result in contradictions, that's where the absurdity lies and it is that absurdity that makes it impossible for the argument to be correct. <br /><br />I was merely pointing out that reductio ad absurdum does not mean "from a contradiction anything follows", which appeared to be the translation proposed by our gracious host. . TheFatBigothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17255526385076528633noreply@blogger.com