tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post5486173689489746205..comments2024-03-18T16:33:31.633+00:00Comments on Capitalists@Work: Brexit - Is free movement a red line for the Out voters.CityUnslickerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-74079979198165598912016-10-26T21:07:33.913+01:002016-10-26T21:07:33.913+01:00England and Wales should leave the UK, allowing Sc...England and Wales should leave the UK, allowing Scotland, NI and London to remain in the EU.<br /><br />Personally, I don't care about having free movement, it is the bureaucratic and political structures I want to leave. Switzerland and Lichtenstein are able to manage immigration to some extent, and are in the Schengen area, without being in the EU, and so there doesn't need to be any hard border between London and the rest of England, or between Scotland and England.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-3614393155357995152016-10-26T21:03:25.180+01:002016-10-26T21:03:25.180+01:00@Raedwald: 60% of Nigerians are Christian, of whic...@Raedwald: 60% of Nigerians are Christian, of which about a quarter are Catholic. Any reason you prefer Polish Catholics to Nigerian Catholics (who are generally educated in English and have a fondness for British culture)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-88519228886863697872016-10-25T18:35:40.720+01:002016-10-25T18:35:40.720+01:00It depends what the price is.
If we get to pick t...<br />It depends what the price is.<br /><br />If we get to pick the bits we want <br />(no freedom of movement, passporting for the city, southern french weather in wales, not paying for anything etc etc), <br />and bin the rest, I am all for staying.<br /><br />Those who are happy exiters should not forget they won 52/48, and the young generally voted in. <br />You should allow the narrowness of the majority as a caution to not go for the hardest of exits unless you can portray it as the EU's fault.<br /><br />TM is probably thinking of the next election and if she can navigate that v.v. narrow path that does not hack off too many on the 52 or 48 side,<br />she will reap the next 15 years or soandrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-72392457736780031342016-10-25T12:07:19.478+01:002016-10-25T12:07:19.478+01:00In response Steven_L unless they have the Euro?
I...<i>In response Steven_L unless they have the Euro?</i><br /><br />I suspect some of the SNP executive would like to adopt the Euro, or even have their own currency, but they have calculated that promising to keep the £ is the best way to get a mandate for independence from the electorate.<br /><br />The line they took was "if you expect us to take our share of the debt, then we should get our share of the assets" and it went down well with the voters. And there is some truth in it, because in the event of independence, if the UK ejected Scotland from the official 'sterling zone' there is no mechanism by which they can force Scotland to owe them a debt.<br /><br />At the end of the day, the potential upheaval to FS industry balance sheets would possibly have forced the 'sterling zone' to remain as it was anyway.<br /><br />But this is all besides the point. The point is that in the comments here there has long been a suspicion that the Scots independence movement is just a bluff to get more money / powers from England. It was/is no more a bluff to leaving the UK than UKIP was/is a bluff to the UK leaving the EU. They are deadly serious about doing it. It is their #1 aim.Steven_Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029437876479574883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-56130450627607144862016-10-25T11:22:23.048+01:002016-10-25T11:22:23.048+01:00BQ - "Good for him. Seems a nice enough bloke...<br /><br />BQ - <i>"Good for him. Seems a nice enough bloke. And no one wanted his job anyway. He hasn't taken anything from the UK except 2 school places"</i><br /><br />No one wanted his job at the money offered. If you offered more money, people would still pick fruit. I did as a youth. The UK produced fruit and veg before 1971. And 2 school places will cost about £12,000 a year at State prices. He won't be paying anywhere near that amount in tax if he's on 15K - maybe £600 a year plus the tax on his booze. And that £6,000 a year he sends home is lost to the UK economy. <br /><br />So in fact, nice chap as he be (and I don't blame him either, I blame our politicians), he's actually taking rather a lot from the UK, while primarily enriching his employer. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-1099197541263856362016-10-25T11:09:02.481+01:002016-10-25T11:09:02.481+01:00I don't have any problem with freedom of labou...I don't have any problem with freedom of labour, but I don't want to pay people to come here. I know people who got off the plane from Spain and got a flat.L fairfaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274756119129254373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-87538266697741168302016-10-25T11:04:21.458+01:002016-10-25T11:04:21.458+01:00Obviously it only takes 1 vote more to leave the U...Obviously it only takes 1 vote more to leave the UK. But according to Sturgeon's logic, any area that voted to stay in the UK would be allowed to. Edinburgh, for example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-27174498101947480942016-10-25T10:43:55.448+01:002016-10-25T10:43:55.448+01:00In response Steven_L unless they have the Euro?
...In response Steven_L unless they have the Euro?<br /><br />BTW, has anyone asked the SNP what % over remain, leave has to be to count as a win? We know from the SNP itself that 52.5% isn't a mandate for Brexit.<br />55% isn't enough to end referendums on exactly the same topic either.<br /><br />So, maybe the threshold should be 60% ? That's a pretty clear win.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-65781670907643776782016-10-25T10:20:07.862+01:002016-10-25T10:20:07.862+01:00The SNP will only countenance an independent Scotl...<i>The SNP will only countenance an independent Scotland that has access to the Bank of England.</i><br /><br />They have to promise to keep the £ to get enough support to cross the 50% threshold. Steven_Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029437876479574883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-82003376668191723232016-10-24T22:30:51.067+01:002016-10-24T22:30:51.067+01:00The SNP will only countenance an independent Scotl...The SNP will only countenance an independent Scotland that has access to the Bank of England. We came close to that when the idiot McCameron brought in the idiot McBrown.<br /><br />Without the BoE, Scotland will be bankrupt after the first year. No EU, no BoE, and when the "experts" tell you a country can't become bankrupt, ask yourself where the money comes from when you haven't got any, you can't print any, no one will lend you any and you can't invade anywhere to steal any?<br /><br />I suppose you could always ask Richard Murphy to guide you through those muddy economic waters. Then you could become Robinson McCrusoe.dustyblokehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14032381020404935256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-36805634350800407652016-10-24T21:18:37.195+01:002016-10-24T21:18:37.195+01:00If the Scots have another vote, I want a vote on t...If the Scots have another vote, I want a vote on the permanent bail-out of the whinging spongers.Blue Eyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16556174219724957585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-12877294003311796242016-10-24T21:12:10.864+01:002016-10-24T21:12:10.864+01:00Then we send all sorts back to them
And that'...<i>Then we send all sorts back to them</i><br /><br />And that's the reality of not reaching an amicable agreement on immigration status isn't it? You'd hope that common sense would prevail and folk currently residing would experience no change in status. But if a 'qualified majority' of member states unite around the position "If you remove free movement we're revoking the right of British immigrants living in the EU to reside" it could come to this.<br /><br />Or we back down and keep free movement. Which is more likely?Steven_Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029437876479574883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-62417600155681063942016-10-24T20:57:58.078+01:002016-10-24T20:57:58.078+01:00Interestingly the comments on this brilliant artic...Interestingly the comments on this brilliant article seem to indicate that the Scots are getting thoroughly sick of the Ginger Whinger. <br /><br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3867744/KATIE-HOPKINS-Scotland-said-No-independence-Britain-said-Yes-bit-not-understand-Nicola.html#newcommentElectro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-92196077568105006082016-10-24T20:38:16.916+01:002016-10-24T20:38:16.916+01:00"How much do the EU want it? Would they use t..."How much do the EU want it? Would they use the nuclear option and threaten to send 250k UK pensioners and nearly a million UK workers home?<br /><br />Don't assume they wouldn't."<br /><br />Then we send all sorts back to them. Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-58967080593141135352016-10-24T20:37:14.163+01:002016-10-24T20:37:14.163+01:00Can anyone explain why NGOs/charities have taken o...Can anyone explain why NGOs/charities have taken over from the government on who is allowed into Britain to become British citizens ?Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-15038726663338872602016-10-24T19:52:39.235+01:002016-10-24T19:52:39.235+01:00The SNP are terrified of a referendum, it would en...<i>The SNP are terrified of a referendum, it would end their raison d'etre.</i><br /><br />Nope, the SNP represent the 40%+ Scots that want Scotland to leave the UK. It is not a bluff, they will use Brexit to try to make Scotland leave the UK. They care far more about leaving the UK than they do being in the EU.Steven_Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029437876479574883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-68175560532691196552016-10-24T15:54:31.429+01:002016-10-24T15:54:31.429+01:00The free market was the Trojan Horse within which ...The free market was the Trojan Horse within which the One State was disseminated through Europe.<br /><br />It is integral to that concept and is meaningless without it. Might as well ask for free movement between here and Texas.<br /><br />If it happens, then you know that, however it's dressed up, we haven't left the EU.<br /><br />The SNP are terrified of a referendum, it would end their raison d'etre.<br /><br />They will content themselves with being meddling little shits in the Commons to satisfy their more rabid supporters.dustyblokehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14032381020404935256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-31596541133293404422016-10-24T15:52:53.432+01:002016-10-24T15:52:53.432+01:00The welfare state bit is a part of it. But I belie...The welfare state bit is a part of it. But I believe for many of the Eastern Europeans it was the high value paid for work.<br /><br />£7.20 may not seem like very much - £15,000 a year.<br />But its mostly untaxed.<br /><br />And translates to 3 to 5 times more spending power in the home nation.<br /><br />Say £6,000 a year being sent home. That's £18,000 - £30,000 being sent back without claiming any benefits.<br /><br />I have said before, but bears repeating. A dad i know from the playground pickup, Polish guy, has been a foreman on a fruit farm for about eight years now.<br />He has paid for half a fruit farm in Poland with the money he sent back.<br />The rest on bank loans. <br /><br />Good for him. Seems a nice enough bloke. And no one wanted his job anyway. He hasn't taken anything from the UK except 2 school places. It would have been fine if 750,000 other Poles and 500,000 Romanians, 300,000 Hungarians - 250,000 Baltic states etc all decided to follow him.<br /><br />And even then it wouldn't have mattered except for the equal increase and more of Non EU nations numbers and the total lack of any government administration of such large numbers of people.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-50854736860439754082016-10-24T15:00:57.845+01:002016-10-24T15:00:57.845+01:00"Free movement and mega-welfare states (such ..."Free movement and mega-welfare states (such as out own) are incompatible."<br /><br />Indeed we lose sight of this fact. It is that alone that accounts for so many heading for Europe and particularly the UK. It is also a major factor for many Eastern Europeans heading here as well. Other factors also play a part we are more liberal (in the classic meaning of that word, the progressives meaning quite the opposite) than many other countries even European ones. Is one.Antistheneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10120647617145756102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-35276641378015168472016-10-24T14:39:04.519+01:002016-10-24T14:39:04.519+01:00Free movement and mega-welfare states (such as out...Free movement and mega-welfare states (such as out own) are incompatible. Elby the Beserkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15060519682739666145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-62461028064646574752016-10-24T14:38:10.342+01:002016-10-24T14:38:10.342+01:00"I doubt the Scots will call another referend..."I doubt the Scots will call another referendum on Scottish independence"<br /><br />Only Westminster can do that, whatever the Wee Binty might like to claimElby the Beserkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15060519682739666145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-89982749028033938932016-10-24T14:04:27.924+01:002016-10-24T14:04:27.924+01:00How much do the EU want it? Would they use the nu...How much do the EU want it? Would they use the nuclear option and threaten to send 250k UK pensioners and nearly a million UK workers home?<br /><br />Don't assume they wouldn't.Steven_Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029437876479574883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-23161408149264205582016-10-24T13:32:07.206+01:002016-10-24T13:32:07.206+01:00I want a hard Brexit for a mountain of reasons but...I want a hard Brexit for a mountain of reasons but free movement is not one of them. I would be happy with controlled movement our economic well being relies on a large pool of skilled labour and the EU has an abundance of it outside not so much. Being realistic we cannot leave the single market not because we cannot prosper outside of it but because the confidence of too many that we rely on our prosperity for will be shattered. Post Brexit it is important that that is not the case otherwise all the doomsayers will be proven right. In the end we will have to accept EFTA/EEA membership as the only Brexit possible under the circumstances. It will not be exactly what we what but it will give us a lot more than we have now. Free movement we will have to accept but it will also be controllable much more than it is now. Antistheneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10120647617145756102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-55550423276419501342016-10-24T13:11:34.996+01:002016-10-24T13:11:34.996+01:00I cannot foresee anything that would persuade me t...I cannot foresee anything that would persuade me to change my mind and vote to Remain in the EU.John in Cheshirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16304578727119582195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-74121064862821139542016-10-24T13:04:24.604+01:002016-10-24T13:04:24.604+01:00The issues are:
1)sovereignty
...The issues are:<br /><br /> 1)sovereignty <br /> and <br /> 2)control of borders <br /><br /> so no <br /><br />Any kind of euro-fudge is going back on what we clearly voted for.<br /><br /><br />Jannoreply@blogger.com