tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post5717552878013058192..comments2024-03-29T11:36:35.692+00:00Comments on Capitalists@Work: Minimum Wage - crush the weakCityUnslickerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-70031536462078513572014-12-15T06:09:23.961+00:002014-12-15T06:09:23.961+00:00Hey what a brilliant post I have come across and b...Hey what a brilliant post I have come across and believe me I have been searching out for this similar kind of post for past a week and hardly came across this. Thank you very much and will look for more postings from you.<br /><a href="http://www.mcdnald.org" rel="nofollow">www.mcdnald.org</a> | <br>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13182352025230582376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-383679597463436772014-12-03T07:20:52.714+00:002014-12-03T07:20:52.714+00:00Brillaint work with awesome events conducting. 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Full of useful resource and great layout very easy on the eyes.<br /><a href="http://www.autowhizal1.com" rel="nofollow">autowhizal1</a> | <br><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04630472344767113376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-24306598779138830632014-09-23T22:48:08.120+01:002014-09-23T22:48:08.120+01:00Less obesity and ill health too, anon.Less obesity and ill health too, anon.Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-32060779828418159612014-09-23T17:25:41.861+01:002014-09-23T17:25:41.861+01:00I actually agree with the minimum wage idea, becau...I actually agree with the minimum wage idea, because at the present time it is actually the taxpayer which subsidises companies which pay low wages by paying out bennies of one kind or another, which is ludicrous. Some companies are effectively reliant on this bennies being paid for their whole business case. This is part of the "fantasy land" economics which will eventually lead us to ruin.<br /><br />Take education and health - both provided by the taxpayer for free to a minimum wager. A minimum wager pays only £500 in tax. As a result the employer gets a healthy, educated employee and neither the employer nor the employee has funded that education or health care. This is clearly wrong. <br /><br />I would propose that we move GRADUALLY to this scenario:-<br /><br />1] The minimum wage reflects a minimum living income for a single person. <br /><br />2] The minimum wage is the level AFTER income tax<br /><br />3] The employers pay National Insurance at a fixed level per employee to cover healthcare, education and welfare provision<br /><br />4] All top-up benefits are STOPPED<br /><br />5] VAT is stopped, except on luxury goods and properties. <br /><br />5] Wealthier people will pay extra tax to pay for defence and some "nice-to-haves"<br /><br />Yes a lot of jobs, as they exist today, will cease to exist simply because companies like MacDonalds currently can only justify their selling of god-awful pap by keeping it cheap and thus keeping wages low. But if we get rid of these non-businesses and non-jobs will we really do UKPLC any harm? In reality we will start to free up people to deploy them in places where they are really needed, like repairing roads and repairing and replacing our ageing built environment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-11050339949978753062014-09-23T13:37:09.131+01:002014-09-23T13:37:09.131+01:00Agree the minimum wage has become the maximum wage...Agree the minimum wage has become the maximum wage for low paid work. That's why raising he minimum wage could be a vote winner for Labour. The average worker doesn't care two hoots about the wider view of the business from the management/business owner point of view (who is a rich capitalist and deserves to be brought down a peg or two) and why should they on the minimum wage; they're not paid to think! But any sop to raise the standard of living is a vote winner and will take people who may have left the Labour fold for UKIP straight back to Labour. Even with wage top-ups (tax credits) psychologically having a higher minimum wage will appeal more even if the overall income hasn't changed and sometimes as in the case of students cited above it actually means more money in the end.Jannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-28068465130068562082014-09-23T12:56:24.771+01:002014-09-23T12:56:24.771+01:00When I was a student, before the minimum wage was ...When I was a student, before the minimum wage was introduced, I could get an unskilled summer labouring job and be paid the same as the permanent (unionised) workforce. Because my cumulative holiday earnings were lower than their annual earnings, I paid less tax - and so had a higher net weekly pay, albeit only for the duration of the holidays - than they did.<br /><br />Now I have student-aged children of my own, and the most they can aspire to in their holidays is minimum-wage work of the burger-flipping type. The so-called minimum wage has become the actual (maximum) wage. Was thgis ever the intention?<br /><br />And with our enlightened policy of open borders, there is no shortage of applicants willing to come and work for it, so existing employees have no leverage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-8752632845776898642014-09-23T12:46:06.383+01:002014-09-23T12:46:06.383+01:00Anon: Don't get me started on that! We covered...Anon: Don't get me started on that! We covered that about a year ago in a few posts. IIR £10 in London is worth £50 an hour in Warsaw and £160 in Bucharest.<br /><br />So the coffee shop checkout person that manages to save £1 an hour is saving £8 a day, £40 a week.<br /><br />When they take that £40 a week home, its transformed into £200 at Polish cost of living rates.<br /><br />Can buy a house/farm/shop in just a few years. <br />This is probably very good news for the former soviet economies, as when their people return there will be a bit of wealth going around and a sort of instant pop-up western economy.<br /><br />Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-60854983690681563912014-09-23T12:16:54.357+01:002014-09-23T12:16:54.357+01:00I'm sure raising the minimum wage will be grea...I'm sure raising the minimum wage will be great news for a young person struggling in Cracow or Riga. Can one invest in Polish coach companies ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-33260021712935009202014-09-23T12:15:07.754+01:002014-09-23T12:15:07.754+01:00I believe we'd have been a lower tax economy, ...I believe we'd have been a lower tax economy, quite possibly a better standard of living too. And better able to compete abroad. Better all round, in fact. <br /><br />Without the false economy that is top-ups. A healthier balance between work and workers. <br /><br />I hear businessmen saying all the time "My punters aren't coming anymore, they just ain't got the money."<br /><br />Well their punters are, more often than not, someone's employee suffering stagflation. Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-18435625493336524772014-09-23T12:11:06.812+01:002014-09-23T12:11:06.812+01:00Moribund is just dribbling. He has had his long w...Moribund is just dribbling. He has had his long worked out soundbites ("£8 minimum wage", "save the NHS from the Tories", "we will be prudent like last time) made irrelevant by the constitutional crisis. Obviously, thinking on his feet is not one of his strong points.<br /><br />Apart from the UK devolution debacle and the EU, in my view the biggest internal problem - affecting all the UK - is managerialism. Effectively it reduces ordinary people, who never had much power, further down the road to serfdom.<br /><br />Managerialism has caused a split: those at the top, whether in private (corporate) industry or state agencies, who are grotesquely overpaid yet have no sense of responsibility; and those who are "managed" in their every waking moment (not all poor, or the usually cited "disadvantaged").<br /><br />This is why an announced intention to increase the minimum wage to £8 has what little reverberation it has - it <i>appears</i> to be a smack in the face for managerialists. It actually isn't of course.Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-71663355065966876392014-09-23T12:02:27.317+01:002014-09-23T12:02:27.317+01:00£8 would be MAXIMUM wage, remember ?
(Quoting Far...£8 would be MAXIMUM wage, remember ?<br /><br />(Quoting Farage)<br /><br />In fact our minimum wage would be a lot higher than £8 already had we not tied ourselves to the EU.<br /><br />Remembering also that a minimum wage is so often subsidised with taxpayer top-ups anyway. Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-48414943310989338032014-09-23T11:41:38.533+01:002014-09-23T11:41:38.533+01:00@dearieme: that's British management in a nuts...@dearieme: that's British management in a nutshell. Germans, on the other hand....Sebastian Weetabixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-66882802280802102082014-09-23T11:02:48.024+01:002014-09-23T11:02:48.024+01:00"hard, rational, numerate, fact-based critica..."hard, rational, numerate, fact-based critical analysis": as a supplier of such over a long career, I found a shortage of people who actually wanted to listen to them. Best quotation: "You are one of those clever buggers who will persuade me to do something I don't want to do."deariemenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-4762907862707820722014-09-23T08:49:51.363+01:002014-09-23T08:49:51.363+01:00It's an employess mentality.
Mr O'Brien i...It's an employess mentality.<br /><br />Mr O'Brien is an employee. He has no concept of onvestment or risk.<br /><br />Employers only start up businesses to make a fortune by exploiting the workers. They drive Rollers and Mercs and live in 7 bedroom detached houses in suburbia.<br /><br />It's the view of employees since the agricultural revolution. Especially employees educated at public schools.<br /><br />But it may surprise Mr O'B to learn that when he knocks off at 1pm to slide down to Yate's for a couple of hours, the average small business owner has another 6 hours to go to ensure his house isn't reposessed.<br /><br />And he didn't start at 10 am either.john millernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-37894892579326756692014-09-23T08:12:25.950+01:002014-09-23T08:12:25.950+01:00@BQ - "Mymondayname . The DJ is only reflecti...@BQ - "Mymondayname . The DJ is only reflecting a left wing mindset. Business must pay people more."<br /><br />Well, yes and no... the current govt want exactly the same thing and are trying to engineer it.<br />The elephant in the Tory economics room is <i>why</i> they want it to happen. There are two reasons<br /><br />1 - they believe in this magical thinking nonsense of GDP. (An arbitrary measure dreamed up by early C20 academics and social engineers)<br /><br />2 - Nobody wants to face the colossal debt problems overhanging the economy, both public and private. Your policies of QE and financial repression are deliberately inflating asset prices and forcing those on fixed or low incomes into the gutter just so those who fucked up their investments can maintain a semblance of solvency. You are promoting and defending the interests of those who demonstrably cannot invest profitably. In order to maintain this charade you are grinding the rest of the economy/country into the ground.<br />Now, please, dont come back here and say QE and ZIRP arent meddling in the economy. You are engineering and tinkering just as much as the other crowd.<br />I totally agreee with your employer X vs Y and wages but that only occurs in a free, open and un-pimped markets. You are not providing that or anything like it so your points are moot.<br /><br /><br />"And employ more. No mention of if government taxed them less, the effect would be the same."<br />I have said for a long time here that taxing of Labour (ie work) should be at or near 0% for those under say 25k and only 30% up to £100k. Assets should be taxed in lieu at a fixed annual rate on a self declared valuation which allows the state the first option to purchase at that price.<br />No corporations or non-uk tax-payers should be allowed to hold or own land or residential dwellings.<br />MyTuesdayNamenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-3953067645685773452014-09-23T07:42:58.332+01:002014-09-23T07:42:58.332+01:00@ND: couldn't agree more. 'Magical thinkin...@ND: couldn't agree more. 'Magical thinking' has become mainstream. I even see it with young science/engineering graduates at work. Things have come to a hell of a state when a science graduate from a Russell Group university isn't capable of hard, rational, numerate, fact-based critical analysis. (Perhaps the ones who can all go to work for hedge funds?)Sebastian Weetabixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-30612072643177075212014-09-22T23:00:58.823+01:002014-09-22T23:00:58.823+01:00He is a good radio host. But. In this instance, h...<i>He is a good radio host. But. In this instance, he's a lefty mental.</i><br /><br />the whole scottish thing has been conducted in a faith-based, fact-free miasma of emotion<br /><br />I suppose you could say, that's the whole of popular politics and always has been<br /><br />but it seems to be getting worse, IMHONick Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670594203660051701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-11522454224313642172014-09-22T22:10:13.482+01:002014-09-22T22:10:13.482+01:00if we were in a recession ... it would be pretty s...<i>if we were in a recession ... it would be pretty stupid to put up wages</i><br /><br />Would it? Then why it is sensible to slash interest rates and increase government spending?<br /><br />Putting up wages in a recession - especially a debt bubble recession - might well be bad for the price of sterling, but is de-leveraging against a backdrop of price/wage inflation or deflation the better option?<br /><br />Maybe you should go ask the Spanish or the Irish?Steven_Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029437876479574883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-81429395901812552822014-09-22T21:04:12.405+01:002014-09-22T21:04:12.405+01:00But what about the self-employed, of whom there ar...But what about the self-employed, of whom there are a lot these days. They often pay themselves or their family starvation wages. No minimum wage there.DJKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-90855953861799924382014-09-22T19:22:23.478+01:002014-09-22T19:22:23.478+01:00On the airlines it's the service, handlers, co...On the airlines it's the service, handlers, counter staff, cleaning, catering, people that are on low (ish). Now a pilot won't care about minimum wage, but the operator has only two pilots for every ten cleaners. So , that's why I put it in. <br />But airport wages tend to be higher than the average because of the unsociable hours , large numbers of people required, and limited numbers of nearby workers who want yo live under a flight path. so probably a poor choice. Replace with the couriers who fill the airport perimeter road instead.<br /><br />BE. You are absolutely correct. Higher pay means lower exports. O Brien is often keen to ridicule the tories who said minimum wage would be the death of Britain. And he is right that it did nothing of the sort. <br />But that was because if was set to a very cautious level. And in companies I worked in there was an initial loss of very junior people. But a recruitment freeze that went on for years and years.<br /><br />And those who claim minimum wages success never explain why we exported our call centres and textiles , furniture, and electronics etc overseas. That's without including the old heavy industries into the mix.<br />How many jobs lost? Must be in the millions.<br /><br />Mymondayname . The DJ is only reflecting a left wing mindset. Business must pay people more. And employ more. No mention of if government taxed them less, the effect would be the same. <br />Government can't afford to take less tax in, but business CAN afford to pay more.<br />Note some..but all.<br /><br />I don't see why we should seek to put any business to sleep! For what purpose? If it fails, it fails. But why smack it down? <br />If employer x is offering to pay more than employer y, then employer y is going to find it hard to get talented people. It all sorts itself out. The meddling will only make everything worse.<br />Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-91164978664381060842014-09-22T19:03:22.990+01:002014-09-22T19:03:22.990+01:00So...... this is basically a post about what a rad...So...... this is basically a post about what a radio DJ said....<br /><br />I'd agree that there are many businesses and indeed individuals that are only just hanging on because of forbearance and low rates, that should really be put to sleep. A policy your govt continues BQ.<br />Perhaps quitting the corporate welfare and adminis-flation policies before pronouncing on those who actually work for a living might get a better reception. (pun intended ;) )MyMondayNamenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-60510120543542611742014-09-22T18:59:05.840+01:002014-09-22T18:59:05.840+01:00At least O'Brian is acknowledging that busines...At least O'Brian is acknowledging that businesses and jobs will be lost. What Ed Siliband will not have understood is that if you do a job that is worth less than £8 an hour, your job will be exported to somewhere where lower wages will allow it to be done profitably.<br /><br />No doubt next week Ed will tell us that he wants lots of low-skilled manual jobs in the UK. Well you can't have a high minimum wage and low-skilled jobs. <br /><br />Also, the whole thing is, as you point out, an aspiration over 5 years. If inflation is high, as it usually is under Labour governments, £8 in 2020 might be worth less than £6.50 is today.<br /><br />If we must have a minimum wage (and I do appreciate the arguments in favour), it ought to be set carefully. Indeed the mechanism set up by Blair/Brown seems to have worked well. Why is Ed now planning to tear it up?BEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-71624185833935232662014-09-22T18:45:04.757+01:002014-09-22T18:45:04.757+01:00with you most of the way
but
I think you got a bit...with you most of the way<br />but<br />I think you got a bit carried away from<br /><br />"Airlines and airports with their £99 a ticket deals must take a 20% hit on the nose."<br /><br />- only if 100% of the cost is labour, <br />which may be close to the truth for a cleaner, <br />but possibly not for people who have a fleet of jetsandrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.com