tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post683806544726400306..comments2024-03-18T16:33:31.633+00:00Comments on Capitalists@Work: Robotic Cars - The driver-less future.CityUnslickerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-37028836658446499842017-02-21T23:36:52.517+00:002017-02-21T23:36:52.517+00:00Apols patently, hadn't realised you had tongue...Apols patently, hadn't realised you had tongue in cheek. Good luck for Saturday.<br /><br />*My Internet forum buttons are pushed when drivers who describe themselves as "petrolhesds" think that booting an Audi S3 past a school at 60mph qualifies them as a driving god, rather than getting themselves on a track.Charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-69077650351686801452017-02-21T21:54:46.695+00:002017-02-21T21:54:46.695+00:00Sorry for a late reply. Don't tell anybody but...Sorry for a late reply. Don't tell anybody but I've been seeing a girl.<br />Charlie software upgrades are one thing but I'm talking about the hardware. Car platforms and handling are weight critical. One company I worked for had invested in a small company battery developer.( Tesla and apple were both interested in buying them out complete but they were looking for investors). When the test results of there solid state battery came back, they screamed scam. Until we saw that the tests were carried out by (another investor) a very respectable military hardware supplier. We were looking at a a 400% increase in energy density. 200Kg weight loss is a platform wrecker. I'm not saying we won't get down to a point where it will stabilize but it's gonna be carnage along the way and some of the established brands will be toast.<br />Patently- that was my point. You won't be allowed to drive. Now I'd like to think we should be able to write the software, so it ignores anything with a mobile ( that should thin the herd down). They will just keep reducing the speed down to walking pace (time is money is an alien concept to TPTB)Suffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-40514169927162641022017-02-21T09:01:35.151+00:002017-02-21T09:01:35.151+00:00You'll still be most welcome on Saturday, Bill...You'll still be most welcome on Saturday, Bill, if you fancy the trip.patentlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602962323262055007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-65315645452159020012017-02-20T19:51:23.762+00:002017-02-20T19:51:23.762+00:00Patently is a well known as a Caterham speed demon...Patently is a well known as a Caterham speed demon. <br /><br />My Donington days are long gone. Even my bruntingthorpe ones are distant. <br />I'm happy with the idea of a self driving car these days.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-58890789355694066802017-02-20T18:43:27.128+00:002017-02-20T18:43:27.128+00:00Charlie, the comment was tongue-in-cheek, to highl...Charlie, the comment was tongue-in-cheek, to highlight the fairly obvious flaw that arises if the majority of cars are self-driving. I've commented before on my own blog that driving through urban areas is going to become a nightmare as soon as pedestrians realise they can step out any time they want. I've since realised that this applies to drivers of non-autonomous cars as well. <br /><br />Also, I'm just about to start my sixth season as a racing driver. If you want to drop in at Donington Park on Saturday you can say 'Hi' and maybe come for a passenger ride. You might find that in a well-run formula, driving standards on track are (of necessity) rather higher than on the road :-)patentlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602962323262055007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-46505208976334323532017-02-20T15:07:28.419+00:002017-02-20T15:07:28.419+00:00patently, if you like driving, instead of looking ...patently, if you like driving, instead of looking forward to a time when you can drive selfishly with impunity, get on a track.Charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-77105411936857975462017-02-20T13:10:25.639+00:002017-02-20T13:10:25.639+00:00As a petrolhead, this can't happen quickly eno...As a petrolhead, this can't happen quickly enough for me.<br /><br />Cars that automatically give way to avoid a collision if you push out in front of them? Cars that are programmed not to be aggressive, to yield if there is a risk? Cars that will do an emergency stop if needed to avoid a pedestrian accident? This is going to be brilliant - for the people in an older analogue cars who want to make progress, or who want to walk around urban areas. Me, in other words. <br /><br />It's going to be a nightmare for the people who are used to plodding along in their Nissan Micras, getting in everyone's way and jealousy guarding "their" little bit of road. The ones who don't really like driving, and who will actually want to buy a car that does it for them. <br /><br />Revenge at last. patentlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602962323262055007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-4993074917148016852017-02-20T12:18:38.061+00:002017-02-20T12:18:38.061+00:00We're still a bit of a distance from having tr...We're still a bit of a distance from having truly automated cars - with all the various claims I recommend reading the small print. The truck that self-drove, self-drove along the freeway. The beginning and end of the journey was very much in the hands of human being.<br /><br />Typical Sillicon Valley claims not actually quite what they're insinuating (also see AI.)<br /><br />So, yeah, America may be ready for automated cars, the technology certainly isn't though. We're a good 5-10 years away from having purely automated trucks that'll go between points on a freeway/motorway, but you can add another 5-10 on for use on residential roads.<br /><br />Automated *assistance* is already here though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-65674399573558939902017-02-20T12:12:04.410+00:002017-02-20T12:12:04.410+00:00@YE
also there are other things to think about
...@YE <br /><br />also there are other things to think about <br /><br />- such as when you buy one of these secondhand<br /><br /><a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/20/connected_car_in_the_secondhand_lot_dont_buy_it_if_youre_not_hacksavvy/" rel="nofollow">The global head of IBM's X-Force Red penetration-testing team, Charles Henderson, created a flurry at RSA last week by relating how a connected car app could still access a car he traded in – two years after he'd sold it.<br /><br />Without naming the machine's maker, Henderson related the kinds of features beloved of high-end marques: “geolocation of the car, climate control, navigation control, it allowed me to remotely honk the car horn … and finally I could unlock the car.”</a>andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-6234712852199666252017-02-20T11:39:40.233+00:002017-02-20T11:39:40.233+00:00@Andrew - completely agree; hat we will see is a g...@Andrew - completely agree; hat we will see is a gradual improvement in the driver aids we already have. <br /><br />I forgot to mention the mapping thing in my earlier comment, but it is (to use the modern vernacular) Yuuuge. Out of phone signal? No updates. Tough. What does your auto-car do then? Refuse to move, or call for human intervention?Weekend Yachtsmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04262853091154005651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-35307148504307283042017-02-20T11:19:49.158+00:002017-02-20T11:19:49.158+00:00R4 today 20/02 says autonomous driving will be he...R4 today 20/02 says autonomous driving will be here in 10 years.<br />No it wont.<br /><br />Consider DAB radio, we were supposed to switch off FM after it took 80% of the market a few years ago.<br /><br />I am not saying never, but I do have some old mechanix illustrateds from the early 60s and I want my flying car that was promised by the mid-70s.<br /><br />More practically <br /><br />Consider the fact that the internet has been around for over 25 years and there are still parts of the country where there is no internet.<br />Will you buy an autonomous car that wont work on hol in cornwall / scotland / that area with small roads near the cheddar reservoirs?<br /><br />... or any road that does not have an up to date map <br /><br />Me neither.<br /><br />By up to date map I mean most of the 'real' self drive software depends on an an accurate map down to the traffic cone level that was updated that day.<br /><br />One of the core parts of the american psyche is the freedom that cars symbolise, so the 'Johnnycab' truely driverless car will not happen.<br /><br />Having said that I do not hear anyone complaining about not having to double-declutch or abs or parking sensors or the ones that stop you rear-ending someone.<br /><br />So I do see a gradual growth in 'driver assistance aids' <br />The new E series (iirc) does have an option where it will self-drive down a motorway.<br /><br />IMO in 10 years time the hgv lorry driver will be 'resting' when on a motorway - and iirc, the rules may be being changed in the UK to allow the continental 'double container' trailers.<br />This means bulk deliveries will be more efficient.<br /><br />Not saying 'never' but outside a motorway/dual carriageway with motorway style on/off ramps the environment is too complicated.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311993288675111834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-51800791926275673162017-02-20T11:19:01.034+00:002017-02-20T11:19:01.034+00:00I just can't see people owning their autonomou...<i> I just can't see people owning their autonomous car. What's the point? It sits on your driveway or in a car park for 90% of the time.</i><br /><br />People are speccing Audis, BMWs and Mercs as we speak with autonomous driving features. Just like speccing night vision (or buying these cars themselves) it's an expensive toy to show off with.<br /><br />I reckon the premium car manufacturers will make a good return on autonomous driving options. A lot of their customers are show offs and will simly spec self-driving features to show off to their passengers. And these companies are cheap, all trading on well undern 10x earnings. <br /><br />But for some reason people have a bizarre vision of the future that involves 100% autonomous electric cars. Hence Tesla's stupid valuation.Steven_Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029437876479574883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-45249590295767676662017-02-20T09:22:47.459+00:002017-02-20T09:22:47.459+00:00"As for the technology of driverless road veh..."As for the technology of driverless road vehicles - I am saddened that anyone really believes it is anywhere near ready for general use."<br /><br />This.<br /><br />It ain't autonomous if it needs specially managed roads, or if it needs a human driver to be alert awake and sober at all times.<br /><br />And currently they all need one or the other or both.<br /><br />This stuff is much further away than most people think, because most people don't appreciate what a fiendish AI problem we're trying to solve. Moore's law by itself is not going to fix this one.<br />Weekend Yachtsmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04262853091154005651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-14352376945864233362017-02-20T00:37:55.607+00:002017-02-20T00:37:55.607+00:00Suff -
Re tooling and ROI, I think the auto indust...Suff -<br />Re tooling and ROI, I think the auto industry is well-versed enough in platform sharing to make the whole thing a go-er, plus any improvements to the automation side of things would be simple software updates. Give the car a SIM card or wifi and it wouldn't even need to go near a dealer, which will be a problem for them as they'll lose the easy money currently earned for "servicing". This will happen anyway with electrification, whether the cars drive themselves or not.<br /><br />My Golf is on a service plan, but I noted that my local VW dealer would have charged £329 for a service if paying cash. £329 to change a few filters and the engine oil, which with a ramp and some experience takes 30 mins max. They wanted a further £200 to do the gearbox oil too, plus £600 to do brake discs and pads - I declined and did it all on my driveway, but most will suck it up and hand over a grand to their dealer for 2 hours' work. This easy money goes away with electric cars which, as far as I can see, just don't need this level of servicing. They have a simple cooling circuit and some brakes, and that's about it. Even then, wear is reduced due to regenerative braking.<br /><br />But I digress - autonomous cars. I just can't see people owning their autonomous car. What's the point? It sits on your driveway or in a car park for 90% of the time. Why wouldn't you be part of a car club, or have an account with a taxi firm? By the way E-K, this isn't communism. I would have thought there will be budget car clubs offering basic vehicles, with relatively poor availability, through to expensive car clubs offering premium vehicles that turn up on your doorstep 2 minutes after jabbing a finger at your smartphone.<br /><br />Like I said, bring it on. See you on the track.Charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-63688005576374428532017-02-19T21:01:46.070+00:002017-02-19T21:01:46.070+00:00That's no use Ek - the pub trade will have to ...That's no use Ek - the pub trade will have to take up the slack in courier jobs.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-26834182597550036252017-02-19T20:46:36.407+00:002017-02-19T20:46:36.407+00:00You'll be able to go out and have a drink.
I...You'll be able to go out and have a drink. <br /><br />I expect the law will require a qualified driver to be present at all times, for manual override. Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-10207545116925297872017-02-19T20:05:58.295+00:002017-02-19T20:05:58.295+00:00Good points stuff.
having both auto and non auto-...Good points stuff. <br />having both auto and non auto-drive cars on the road must be a major issue. <br />It's not the same as the automatic mining trucks on roads all by themselves.<br />If it's all robots it will be safer than now. If it's all non robots it will be as it is now. If it's a mix of some and some not, it will surely be more dangerous. <br /><br />ND. That is the case. $ gas price affects US motoring miles.<br /><br />$2.29 a gallon + sales tax at the moment. They thought it was pretty pricey. $30 for a full tank.<br />When I said we pay About $120 for the same not sure they believed me.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-78314547077173146642017-02-19T18:34:18.978+00:002017-02-19T18:34:18.978+00:00When the recession hit, miles driven fell
the big...<i>When the recession hit, miles driven fell</i><br /><br />the big correlation is between miles and price<br /><br />whenever US gasoline price goes above $3, the 'summer [driving] season' slumps: when it went above $4 [2008, briefly] it killed the driving season stone dead Nick Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670594203660051701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-22984897499132833192017-02-19T18:30:12.318+00:002017-02-19T18:30:12.318+00:00Sorry for over posting. Very drunk last night. Sorry for over posting. Very drunk last night. Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-76067090949594566572017-02-19T17:29:12.140+00:002017-02-19T17:29:12.140+00:00This is the largest subject in the auto industry a...This is the largest subject in the auto industry at the moment and it is truly is a game changer along with electrification. It's the subject of endless debate about which direction we should head and there is going to be some real Betamax moments in the industry. bare in mind our whole infrastructure has been built around auto industry, whether it be out of town shopping or whether the delivery networks miss out the shops completely. Do we deliver the person or the product? How will the work place in environment work- do we need large groups of people in the same place at the same time?<br />The biggest headache for the auto industry with fitting all this raidly improving technology in a vehicle, is how you keep your product at the cutting edge for long enough, to get the sales volumes to repay the huge tooling and development costs. Unlike computer gadgets, cars have to work in all environments at all times and within strict legal guidelines (no reboot for us). Battery and inverter technology is advancing faster than the time we have to legally test it. Depreciation on a vehicle will be mind blowing.<br />The technologies are almost there and basics of which are already available in current cars on the market with brake assist, lane assist. Self parking....and that's old technology. We have cars driving around quite happily on there own.<br />As ND and Bill have pointed out the legal and ethical questions are the big road block but I believe with the states love all controlling all things will this will get steam rolled through the courts. The question won't be will you buy one but will you be allowed not to.Suffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-59081269929727697292017-02-19T14:22:16.570+00:002017-02-19T14:22:16.570+00:00Seat belts are state laws, not federal. Wrote that...Seat belts are state laws, not federal. Wrote that in wrong.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-90464470299506381042017-02-19T14:21:28.158+00:002017-02-19T14:21:28.158+00:00Deaths by country are hard to compare. Europe has ...Deaths by country are hard to compare. Europe has the lowest road deaths by continent. The U.k is the lowest in Europe.<br />Blood alcohol limits in UK and USA are similar. Seat belt laws in USA are federal. Different laws in different states. <br />In some states a police unit cannot stop and check a vehicle just for suspicion of not wearing one.<br />In Vermont, which shows the highest increase of any state for fatalities from motoring, 50% of deaths recorded show no seat belt worn.<br />Motorcycle helmet laws are also state legislated. Three states have no laws at all. 19 have mandatory helmet wearing. The rest is a mix depending on motorcycle type.<br />Handheld mobile phone use is only banned in a few states. <br /><br />The us also has ramp exit/entrance from BOTH sides of the carriageway. Sometimes you join the freeway from the slow ramp into the fast lane. Sometimes you must cross four lanes of fast traffic to get to the slow exit. Also often the slow lane becomes the exit lane. Causing a constant shifting over to get out of the off exit. And the auS has that weird cross junction. Like our roundabouts, but it's an intersection. The law is whoever arrives first has right of way. If you weren't paying attention when you got there...?!<br /><br />The US also racks up the most miles driven. They drive more and further than anyone. When the recession hit, miles driven fell, along with death rates.<br />The USA is also a continent. The weather can be extreme. The UK with our tiny fatality rate, is not weather hit. When it snows, we stop driving. If they did that in Montana, no one would drive October to February. Or drive in the lightning filled but rainless thunderstorms in the summer. Two people have died in flood related motor deaths yesterday in California.<br /><br />So those are some reasons. I don't see any of mine or your arguments invalidate any of what I suggested. The USA is just about ready for the rise of the machines in 4x4 form.<br />Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-51561210057690177212017-02-19T13:21:17.131+00:002017-02-19T13:21:17.131+00:00From Wikipedia (2013 figures; see https://en.wikip...From Wikipedia (2013 figures; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate ) the USA has twice the road fatalities per unit distance driven than does the UK. This is 7.1 deaths per billion vehicle-km for the USA and 3.6 deaths per billion vehicle-km driven for the UK.<br /><br />And Bill Quango MP writes: "[... bad] impatient, high speed Euro-UK driver eyes. The USA is ready for the driver-less automobile."<br /><br />Elsewhere, I read that many (journalists and politicians) view driverless vehicles as the means to reduce the USA's high rate of road deaths. For me, it just seems that there are other (and likely sooner available) useful remedies to the high USA road death rate than use of autonomous vehicles. Whatever makes us better over here, impatience and high speed really must work much harder for Bill to undo the benefit!<br /><br />As for the technology of driverless road vehicles - I am saddened that anyone really believes it is anywhere near ready for general use.<br /><br />Best regards<br />Nigel Sedgwickhttp://www.camalg.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-3173631866066344022017-02-19T00:41:34.076+00:002017-02-19T00:41:34.076+00:00... so anyone outside of the London Beardie-gentsi...... so anyone outside of the London Beardie-gentsia is going to go Communist on car transport ?Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32841798.post-6209262163080889692017-02-19T00:39:02.550+00:002017-02-19T00:39:02.550+00:00... like... lots of cars meandering around on thei...... like... lots of cars meandering around on their own at your behest without congestion. And you think fares will get cheaper ? Electro-Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18073103431166273080noreply@blogger.com