Tuesday, 23 September 2008

Will they, won't they: US Bail-out up for grabs

Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson are in front of the US congressmen and Senators today trying to push their emergency rescue package. After huge gains on Friday, the S&P and FTSE are back down heavily as people realise that this is no done deal.

There is a huge dilemma at the centre of this; save the banks and buy off the bankers. or screw the banks and take the Western Economies down too.

Not an easy choice to have to make. Some changes need to be made to the $700 billion package, perhaps enough to get it through the US system.

Meanwhile on planet Brown, he is saying that he is off to Washington to negotiate about the future of the World Financial System! Think he is a day late, the US will be telling him what they already decided to do.

Deluded is not strong enough a word for this....


Anonymous said...

C@W: "There is a huge dilemma at the centre of this; save the banks and buy off the bankers. or screw the banks and take the Western Economies down too."

No real dilemma, simply ask yourself this question. Am I a capitalist, or am I a fascist?

How you answer that question, will give you the answer to your first question.

Anonymous said...

Do you have any comments about the school of thought that says in fact the $700 billion is only the maximum he may have on his books at any one time, and that if he sells it on (at a price he instructs others to buy at) he can do it all again, and again, and ... ?

Sackerson said...

"After huge gains on Friday, the S&P and FTSE are back down heavily as people realise that this is no done deal."

Not only no done deal, but according to some a deal that should not be done at all.

Anonymous said...

This is going to cost a lot more than 700 billion. I'm used to those clowns screwing up.

I'm now looking at the European governments. How will they decide to bailout their own systems?

Which government will get first prize in the banker enrichment contest?

CityUnslicker said...

Anon - I don't want to reward failure and I don't want a depression. I am asking too much.

Yokel - It may well be more money, it certainly is worded that way currently. Hopefully this will be one of the things they change, for the sake of US taxpayers.

Sackers - interesting times. at least my gold is back up to nicer levels!

Matt- They will copy the US, they always do.

Anonymous said...

C@W: "I don't want to reward failure and I don't want a depression. I am asking too much."

Believe me, I don't want a depression either, but it seems to me Paulson's plan would lead to hyper inflation which would ultimately destroy America as a force for good.

Then there are all sorts of things about the plan, the legislation going before Congress, that is extraordinary. In short it's a grab for ultimate power. No democratic scrutiny, no restriction on authority to mint money. No restriction on authority to confiscate private property.

You are right there are no easy options, but I don't think we ought to take what appears to be the soft option, simply because is looks to be the soft option.

I thought one of the principles of Capitalism is the concept of constructive destruction leading to renewal?

Paulson seems to be offering the state planned economy, that together with destruction of the concept of private property leads somewhere I don't want to go!

Anonymous said...

Or: save the banks and buy off the bankers, bugger up the dollar and so take the Western Economies down too.

Letters From A Tory said...

It's hilarious to think that Brown believes he has any control over what happens in world financial markets.

Unsworth said...

Just what does the idiot Brown think he's going to 'negotiate' - apart from a piss-poor piece of PR for himself?

Maybe and as usual he's just avoiding having to talk about other more pressing matters - such as the loss of Kelly today, for example, the cabinet reshuffle, and how he's going (or we are) to pay for all these new 'initiatives'. He's an economic moron.

Paulson's proposal to wander around buying up bad debt is simply a licence for the Feds to print money. And we all know where that goes.

CityUnslicker said...

dearime - I have a hunch that buggering the dollar will destroy china and petro-dollar countries first unless they are very savvy.

Which is why this is the plan.

Old BE said...

Instead of bailing out the banks, how about the US taxpayer bails out consumers and mortgage holders? Divvy that $700,000,000,000 between householders and let them pay off their own debts?

Anonymous said...

Blue eyes, the toxic debt is so toxic leaving it in the system is just too dangerous, banks have had now a year to state their loses and all they come up with is guesses, a market cannot run on guess work.

It sickens me to see this done and I hope the FBI make a good case against the people involved and are put in jail for a long time, but when push comes to shove its the only deal on the table.

James Higham said...

They can't answer that question.

CityUnslicker said...

I am unsure as to whether the banks can't or won't answer the question.

re the $700 billion; lehmans went bust owing $646 billion, so we can assume for a fact that $700 billion won't cover it all.

As long as it covers enough to stave off world financial collapse is the key.

Old BE said...

CU - why is giving the cash to the banks at the top better than giving it to taxpayers so that they can sort the problems out from the bottom up? Either via a massive tax cut or printing money for consumers?

CityUnslicker said...

how could you gaurantee the taxpayers will pay the loans?

they may just buy tv's and holidays and still default on the loans.

Also, not all loans are bad, there would be still moral hazard in rescuing the people with crappy mortgages they should not have at the expense of those who are diligent. or vice versa to that.

The easiest way is to buy the debt and save the banks. without functioning banks we will have a global depression - as I said above. I hate the answer, but it is right.

Anonymous said...

Which is why this is the plan.



It's the other parts of the plan that stick in the craw.

The easiest way is to buy the debt and save the banks.

Also need a playing field with a good ref., to balance all the derivatives off. - Globally, - and that's the problem!

Old BE said...

How do you know the bankers won't just use the money to pay themselves a handsome bonus at the end of the year?

Unsworth said...

Paulsen is reported as refusing to meet Brown.


Yep, that's our boy.

Jeeze, it's just so bleeding awful watching the cretin damaging our reputation as well as the economy (if that's what it is these days).

Anonymous said...

Of course they are going to send the Cash its Washington's Piss up.

Here is the explaination of the US Problem.


Its not a bail out of capitalism at all, Its dud investments underpinned By Washington. Another shit up by socialism.

CityUnslicker said...

BE, they can, the bonus' are peanuts.

Also the bankers are rich anyway, we can't take their ill gotten gains off them as (or if...) they made it legally. They would rather keep their banks going.

CityUnslicker said...

Unsworth - quite predictable, he is an idiot of the first order.

Anyway, if we wait around the US taxpayers may pick up the bill, yeah UK!

Brown ain't much of a machiavelli

Old BE said...

Sorry, I find myself hoping that rather a lot of the people at the top of the industry lose their shirts as so many "ordinary" people will further downstream. I don't want to be paying them bonuses out of my relatively meagre salary packet any more than I want Ed Balls to get a free house out of me.

Unsworth said...


Yes, yes. But the difference is that Balls is (in theory, at least) an elected representative, whereas the others are traders.

The matter hinges on our expectations of a) politicians and, b) traders.

And I supppose it might also be said that one can move one's cash around at whim, whereas governments (if that is what it is) are in the driving seat for four years. In my view governments are in many ways even less accountable than capitalists.

That said, I'd agree with your sentiments. In fact I hope that both kinds of bastards get severely burned. It's about time that 'lessons will be learned'.

Anonymous said...

aaaa片, 免費聊天, 咆哮小老鼠影片分享區, 金瓶梅影片, av女優王國, 78論壇, 女同聊天室, 熟女貼圖, 1069壞朋友論壇gay, 淫蕩少女總部, 日本情色派, 平水相逢, 黑澀會美眉無名, 網路小說免費看, 999東洋成人, 免費視訊聊天, 情色電影分享區, 9k躺伯虎聊天室, 傑克論壇, 日本女星杉本彩寫真, 自拍電影免費下載, a片論壇, 情色短片試看, 素人自拍寫真, 免費成人影音, 彩虹自拍, 小魔女貼影片, 自拍裸體寫真, 禿頭俱樂部, 環球av影音城, 學生色情聊天室, 視訊美女, 辣妹情色圖, 性感卡通美女圖片, 影音, 情色照片 做愛, hilive tv , 忘年之交聊天室, 制服美女, 性感辣妹, ut 女同聊天室, 淫蕩自拍, 處女貼圖貼片區, 聊天ukiss tw, 亞亞成人館, 777成人, 秋瓷炫裸體寫真, 淫蕩天使貼圖, 十八禁成人影音, 禁地論壇, 洪爺淫蕩自拍, 秘書自拍圖片,

做愛的漫畫圖片, 情色電影分享區, 做愛ㄉ影片, 丁字褲美女寫真, 色美眉, 自拍俱樂部首頁, 日本偷自拍圖片, 色情做愛影片, 情色貼圖區, 八國聯軍情色網, 免費線上a片, 淫蕩女孩自拍, 美國a片, 都都成人站, 色情自拍, 本土自拍照片, 熊貓貼圖區, 色情影片, 5278影片網, 脫星寫真圖片, 粉喵聊天室, 金瓶梅18, sex888影片分享區, 1007視訊, 雙贏論壇, 爆爆爽a片免費看, 天堂私服論壇, 情色電影下載, 成人短片, 麗的線上情色小遊戲, 情色動畫免費下載, 日本女優, 小說論壇, 777成人區, showlive影音聊天網, 聊天室尋夢園, 義大利女星寫真集, 韓國a片, 熟女人妻援交, 0204成人, 性感內衣模特兒, 影片, 情色卡通, 85cc免費影城85cc, 本土自拍照片, 成人漫畫區, 18禁, 情人節阿性,

Anonymous said...

情色電影, aio交友愛情館, 言情小說, 愛情小說, 色情A片, 情色論壇, 色情影片, 視訊聊天室, 免費視訊聊天, 免費視訊, 視訊美女, 視訊交友, ut聊天室, 視訊聊天, 免費視訊聊天室, a片下載, av片, A漫, av dvd, av成人網, 聊天室, 成人論壇, 本土自拍, 自拍, A片, 愛情公寓, 情色, 舊情人, 情色貼圖, 情色文學, 情色交友, 色情聊天室, 色情小說, 一葉情貼圖片區, 情色小說, 色情, 色情遊戲, 情色視訊, 情色電影, aio交友愛情館, 色情a片, 一夜情, 辣妹視訊, 視訊聊天室, 免費視訊聊天, 免費視訊, 視訊, 視訊美女, 美女視訊, 視訊交友, 視訊聊天, 免費視訊聊天室, 情人視訊網, 影音視訊聊天室, 視訊交友90739, 成人影片, 成人交友,

免費A片, 本土自拍, AV女優, 美女視訊, 情色交友, 免費AV, 色情網站, 辣妹視訊, 美女交友, 色情影片, 成人影片, 成人網站, A片,H漫, 18成人, 成人圖片, 成人漫畫, 情色網, 日本A片, 免費A片下載, 性愛, 成人交友, 嘟嘟成人網, 成人電影, 成人, 成人貼圖, 成人小說, 成人文章, 成人圖片區, 免費成人影片, 成人遊戲, 微風成人, 愛情公寓, 情色, 情色貼圖, 情色文學, 做愛, 色情聊天室, 色情小說, 一葉情貼圖片區, 情色小說, 色情, 寄情築園小遊戲, 色情遊戲, 情色視訊,