Thursday, 28 July 2016

The Nonsense that is Hinkley

Ho hum, what can we say?  The monstrous Keynsian job-creation scheme (mostly for Frenchmen) is "allegedly" underway.  What a joke, what a farce.

Many years ago, before EDF had bought British Energy, I wrote hereabouts:

That's still one of the major drivers for the French.   But the fat lady still hasn't sung yet ...


+ + + +  UPDATE  + + + +  UPDATE  + + + + 

Hoho, what's this - second thoughts from Phil 'open-for-business' Hammond?  He's every reason, FFS.  We can only hope.


Laban Tall said...

Somewhat o/t, but did you see that the EU backed down on fining Spain and Portugal for breaking the new(ish) EU rules on govt spending? Brexit is causing the rulers to be afraid of the ruled for once, probably for the first time since the Soviet Union fell.

"The proposal made on Wednesday underlines the EU executive’s reluctance to impose fiscal discipline while anti-EU sentiment is rising and economic growth remains slow."

Nick Drew said...

I didn't - thanks for the link. When you think the euro-types all go on hol for July & Aug, I reckon there's a lot more shit of this kind for Brussels to worry over when they get back in Sept. What, for example, of that long list of things they were holding back for fear it influenced the referendum? They can't hold their garlic-laden breath forever.

Blue Eyes said...

Re the "hitch", maybe EDF can build a new reactor at Heathrow?

Electro-Kevin said...

The stupidity of selling off strategic capabilities.

Anonymous said...

If I was an optimistic dreamer I'd say Hinkley is part of some realpolitik deal with the French - we'll give you silly amounts of money for a nuclear power station, you support Brexit by not blocking us from getting a sensible deal.

But the fact this has been announced so soon after Brexit means I can remain a cynic/realist a bit longer....

Wildgoose said...

In the absence of sensible investment in Thorium-based molten-salt reactor designs, a far better option than Hinkley would be lots of "mini-nukes".

The best economies of scale are from mass manufacture - it's a lot cheaper and more reliable to build and maintain 50 identical small plants than one gigantic, complicated one.

We even have local MPs asking that they be built "on their doorstep":

Please build mini-nukes in Wales, say Welsh MPs.

Meanwhile, over in Euroland it appears that the IMF made a series of calamitous misjudgments in Greece, became euphoric cheerleaders for the euro project, ignored warning signs of impending crisis, and collectively failed to grasp an elemental concept of currency theory.

It seems that big, grandiose projects aren't the way to go....

botogol said...

this must be connected with Brexit - as Anon says it mixes it into the deal. And at the same time the way we have walked Edf to the brink ... and then pulled the rug away, shows that we can be badass negotiators :-)

Dick the Prick said...

@Wildgoose - i'm shocked, shocked I tell you that the IMF had their own agenda! I may need to lie down....

As per the EDF thing - I think it's all about saving face now. The Chinese boss of the thing issued a very respectful statement which I thought rather polite.

Anonymous said...

The IMF thing is wonderful. It looks like it panned out exactly how many "cynics" thought it had. A fatal blow to the IMF's already shaky reputation.

Anonymous said...

Er the IMF is a Frog organization for the promotion of all EU idiocies and France.

On energy, notwithstanding some minor details that henceforwards now we are out of the Brussels club of Doom. Britain, could step off the CO₂ limitations merry-go-round because we could finally admit to what is the reality, the whole global warming [supposition] shebang is a politically fashioned myth and thus, a crock of sh*7.

Hinkley C is, will never be built because it is:

a. a design which was past its sell by date: in the late Sixties.

b. the funding is not evident.

c. attempting to make nuclear facilities 'safe' with Chinese help is something akin to expecting assimilation, human rights and pluralistic values to be taught in Saudi funded Wahhabist Mosques building no limit and also encouraging mass gimmegration from moslem Africa and AfroBanglaPakAfghanIragiSyria to infuse, to adopt western culture.

rwendland said...

As many twists and turns as a soap opera in this saga!

I wonder if the govt was secretly hoping EDF would cancel, so they could avoid the political heat of pulling the rug? Probably not, while orange-jacket George was in situ.

Wildgoose, while building Small modular reactors (SMR) could well be more cost effective than the large on-site monsters, operational costs (especially staffing) look far higher per MWh. Security costs especially.

A typical SMR produces about 5% of the power of a current PWR design, so for an isolated unit you'd want 5% of the security costs! But how to do. Maybe 20 SMRs on one site, but that defeats putting them close to demand and has all the old planning problems, and will be less efficient than a big one. Some suggest burying them underground and leaving the unattended, but that seems pretty dodgy. An unsolved problem it seems to me.

Jan said...

At the end of the day perhaps it's just too expensive......

James Higham said...

Fat lady hasn't sung - until September.

Blue Eyes said...

Jan nails it. There is a good reason Britain stopped wasting its money on nuclear power. It has approximately nothing to do with selling off strategic industries or anything of that economic hokem.

rwendland said...

Just had the most annoying listen to Radio 4 World at One about Hinkley. A lot of people saying TINA, and saying the only alternative is gas or renewables.

Absolutely no one mentioned the really important point that other nuclear projects in the pipeline, and we could reject Hinkley and go for another somewhat cheaper nuclear option. Absolutely pathetic for a program that considers itself a leading knowledgeable news source.

The other nuclear in the pipeline, all as large stations as Hinkley, is:

6.7 GWe Hitachi/Horizon (5 ABWR @1.35GWe at Wylfa and Oldbury)
3.3 GWe Toshiba/NuGeneration (3 AP1000 @1.1GWe near Sellafield)
3.4 GWe China (guess: 3 Hualong One @1.15GWe at Bradwell)
3.3 GWe (possibly) EDF/Sizewell C (2 EPR @1.65GWe)

The Hitachi/Horizon ABWR project is for a reactor that has already been built several times, close to a fairly quick build schedule. Quite likely we could have that running before Hinkley is scheduled to be running. Only catch is it is a Fukushima BWR design descendant!


Suff said...

They can't hold their garlic laden breath for ever. My happy thought for the day. Thanks ND
Anon and Botogol- Badass negotiators? So we go to car salesman and say " yes we've agreed to buy the tape deck*for five times the current rate for a sound system, so you're going to give us a good deal on the car right?
* are you sure wireless or at least something with a USB isn't the way to go?

Anonymous said...

I thought SMR's were the way to go, but Moonbat was on Sky News last night saying how they are a better alternative than Hinkley.

I've always taken the opposite to what he says to always be the better option - so not sure how to feel now, doesn't feel right to say I agree with George Monbiot.

TheRaven said...

what do you make of EDF stock reaction to cancellation today?

Electro-Kevin said...

Rwendland - I thought Fukushima did alright bearing in mind it was hit by a tsunami and an earthquake.

Blue - Selling off our electricity generation and research to foreign ownership was insane. I've always thought that and - well - here we are. Little control over the cost of build or the price consumers will be charged. It is certainly not the thrusting and competitive market we were promised by the Thatcherites and it is largely government owned (by EDF) - which is what privatisation was meant to avoid.

Since the much of the world is determined that we remain in the EU and are to be subject to free movement may we at least be exempted from emissions targets and coal power closures ?

Blue Eyes said...

Top trolling EK, top top trolling.

Thrusting competitive markets indeed. Very droll.

Wildgoose said...

We invented civilian nuclear power generation.

With the sale of Westinghouse, Gordon Brown sold off the last of our reactor design and manufacturing capability.

And now we have ended up going to EDF for our nuclear generation needs, the company for whom Andrew Brown, Gordon's brother, works as a lobbyist. Interesting "coincidence" don't you think?

In short, that one-eyed loon wrecked our pensions, sold off our gold at a rock-bottom price having pre-announced the fact so as to depress the price even further, and sold off our nuclear capabilities immediately before we needed to refresh our nuclear power stations.

And of course he was also the chief cheerleader for the lopsided Devolution Settlement that has destroyed the unity of the United Kingdom.

Basically, he was Tony Blair's evil twin.

Anonymous said...

But at least he kept us out of the Euro - one good deed of omission in a naughty world.

Electro-Kevin said...

Blue - Look at my face. Do I look like a troll to you ???

Grrr !

Wildgoose said...

But at least he kept us out of the Euro

Only to spite Blair, but I suppose we should be grateful for that small mercy at least.

Blue Eyes said...

EK your comments suggest you are trying to wind up me and/or Nick.

Brown kept us out of the Euro because he didn't like the fiscal restraints. So he was right because he wanted so much to be wrong.

Electro-Kevin said...

I've met Nick and I'm pretty certain he can't be wound up. So I wouldn't try even if I wanted to.

eyad ammar said...

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شركة الشرق الاوسط
شركة نقل اثاث بالدمام
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شركة نقل عفش بالدمام

eyad ammar said...

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ارخص شركة نقل اثاث بالدمام
شركة تخزين عفش بالدمام
شركة نقل اثاث بالخبر

eyad ammar said...

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شركة غسيل كنب بالدمام
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شركة مكافحة حشرات بالدمام
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eyad ammar said...

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