Thursday 25 May 2017

UKIP Manifesto

In surreal way, the launch of the UKIP manifesto is very well timed today. No doubt the liberal left will be making fun jokes about how horrid it all is....but..

Personally, I have really noticed after the atrocity in Manchester that the debate is very restricted in the UK, with media in particular very, very careful in its political correctness. In part, this is right after all we don't want to make a dreadful situation worse in the current climate.

However, it also quickly extends to any real discussion about what to do. UKIP are the only party that really means it wants to reduce immigration and improve the defences of the country. The Tories are broadly happy with things as they are and Labour want to encourage more immigration and open borders.

Yet nearly everyone I speak to, in hushed tones, asks why we let people back in the country who have been to Syria or Libya on 'extended holidays with family' or 'charity work.' Surely b taking these actions you have forfeited your right to remain in the UK and can have your passport voided so that you can't even board a plane back here.

Other countries don't do this, in Dubai for example, you will vanish straight jail for an indeterminate period and then swiftly be extradited. Tough love, but I see few terror attacks there considering they are a den of western sinners and shame.
Of course, we do it differently in the UK, but I really fear that over the years the authorities continue to rely on the security services whilst not joining the dots on radicalisation and visiting failed Islamic states - the time has come to be far more robust, from the IS perspective this is war, we should treat it as such too. Failure to do so will condemn the country not only to more terror but also to increasing division between muslims and non-muslims.


E-K said...

The Mail states that we must be careful in the extreme not to alienate the wider Muslim community - to counter terror. At least they used 'Muslim' unlike much of the media in which is taboo.

So that's that then.

Their culture and superstition trumps everyone else's and it was done by force.

Looks like they're winning to me.

Sandalista said...

In surreal way, the launch of the UKIP manifesto is very well timed today. No doubt the liberal left will be making fun jokes about how horrid it all is....but..

Don't really need to make fun jokes as they do it to themselves. Like the death penalty for suicide bombers

Or what about the Suffolk candidate whose manifesto states the country should mine the asteroid belt.

Completely bonkers or something Theresa May will steal later

Anonymous said...

It's remarkable how many people given asylum then take holidays in the place where we accepted their lives were in danger (OK, Libya's an exception as we overthrew the previous admin).

visc said...

Watch out CU your metropolitan tory readership will be up in arms at your crassness..

CityUnslicker said...

Sandalista - the lib dem move to legalise drugs and go full on remain is more extreme than anything UKIP offer - as their predicted vote share will show in a few weeks time.

Visc - we don't be terror by sundering to its aims. Did not defeat the IRA that way or the Commies in Malaysia.

Sandalista said...

CU - UKIP are dead in the water as the polls show. Clothes stolen by a Remainer whose job will be to deliver non-Brexit .... as the polls will show.

See you on June 9th

Anonymous said...

Ignoring what UKIP say (which I think most will agree we can do safely)you do raise a very good question; it only takes one side to start a fight and, however reluctantly you engage to defend yourself, if you do not engage you will be beaten.

It is foolishness that we do not speak out and name our enemy and take firm actions in our own defence for fear of causing offence. Is it realistic to hope that the other faith will change its mind?

The Muslim Community is where these people hide themselves. Speaking the false tongue of peace after the event is not enough. The MC should be proactive in finding these people, in stamping out radicalism and in showing the rest of society they have nothing to hide. It is their peaceful existence that is threatened too and they need to change their ways to recognise this.

It is a sorry truth that appeasement only defers conflict.

CityUnslicker said...

Sandalista - UKIP launch was appalling, most of their policies are crazy or stupid.

They will still get a better national vote share than the lib dems on Jun 9th

Anonymous said...

The BBC reports yesterday were "interesting", they sent a guy to the Libyan quarter of Manchester (did I really type that?) and apparently no one knew the guy - fancy that.

Then off to the mosque where the imam denied forcefully and repeatedly that the bomber had ever worked there (his father did if the Guardian is correct) then got onto the important topic of reporting to the police anyone who might say, write or do anything to insult any Muslim, before ending with 'religion of peace'.

It's a sort of good-cop (peaceful spokesman)/bad cop (jihadi) routine, but both with the same ends (just as the good cop and bad cop both want your confession), and meanwhile the Muslim population keeps expanding and the poor British, betrayed by their elite, seem more and more like "an unfortunate man locked in a cage with a hungry lion, hoping not to provoke him while steadily feeding time approaches".

Anonymous said...

@CU - I don't the Lib Dem desire to legalize weed that extreme, swathes of the US are doing so to little trouble and nice tax receipts.

As for the atrocity, I've stated elsewhere that the Muslim/extremist issue has a parallel in the men/domestic violence issue. We're able to act like adults and recognise that whilst most domestic violence attacks are by men, we don't say all men are responsible, and anyone who states that all men are beasts are right swatted off as nutters. So why the hell can't we do that with Islam and terrorism?

The current back and forth between the poor-widdle-Muslims brigade and they're-all-evil idiots just makes me want to shove both groups off a handy cliff to the betterment of humanity.

It's time the likes of Labour stopped pandering to the Muslim vote by turning blind eyes to unacceptable behaviour (Rotherham anyone?) and it was made clear that we're willing to respect Islam in Western societies, but that the road is a two-way one and they must be willing to respect Western mores and be prepared for members of their community to abandon their culture for a more Western one, and suck it up when it happens. If they don't like that bargain, then there are other nations they can decamp to.

And we need to get better at integration. Creating ghettos and enclaves resembling third world nations is an embarrassment and just foments resentment and alienation.

I've worked with Muslims who've integrated well, and ones who haven't - the former don't go on to blow kids up, and we need to look at our successes and replicate them. Simply going on about immigration doesn't stop the second generation timebombs does it? I'm fine with reducing immigration, but treating as it as some panacea? Pull the other one.

And I see Rudd is on about encryption again, apparently access to his WhatsApp messages may have stopped him. As opposed to him having a big fucking ISIS flag on his roof and having spent extended time in Libya then? That not a bit of a pointer?

E-K said...

Anonymous 8.06

The only people BBC comedians won't satirise are Muslims.

Moderate or extremist ... this is one seriously empowered cult and it would take a saint (?) to resist the temptation of taking advantage.

Gained through violence whether directly implicated or not.

The Left are already in *stop the backlash mode* - arms splayed out in defence against the white hoards such as arch NF member Piers Morgan.

Anonymous said...

"the Muslim/extremist issue has a parallel in the men/domestic violence issue"

Ah yes, because when a man beats up his woman he always explicitly does it in the name of patriarchy, just like the jihadis explicitly kill people in the name of Islam.

CityUnslicker said...

Anon - who creates the ghetto's? I don't see that as a government initiative. When I lived in Leeds the ghetto was self-defined, just as in Bradford. The Pakistani immigrants did not want to integrate but to make their own place in the U.K.

Charlie Suet said...

Latest poll has Labour on 38%.

Sebastian Weetabix said...

May is thick & spineless. We are simply waiting for the next attack. Where are the roundups? If they can hassle Tommy Robinson and arrest him for petty trivial offences every time he steps out of the house, why can't they do the same with the Jihadis?

I'm tempted to vote UKIP as there is a slim possibility if May loses a real Tory party might emerge from the wreckage.

L fairfax said...

"If they can hassle Tommy Robinson and arrest him for petty trivial offences every time he steps out of the house, why can't they do the same with the Jihadis? "
There are a lot more of them and MPs would defend them - unlike Tommy Robinson.

Anonymous said...

Cameron's decision to use the RAF to attack Gaddafi's forces bears another crop of bitter fruit. Two years ago 30 middle-aged Brits in Sousse, now 22 mostly young girls in Manchester.

Anon 8.06 also fails to acknowledge that Islam is different in that it both a religious, legal and political system - an entire, seamless system of living* - there's no concept of separation between Church and State as there is in Western political systems.

The jihadis and the 'moderates' share the same ends.

* which is a very attractive idea in a Godless, atomised UK.

Anonymous said...

@CU - the ghetto is self-defined, which shouldn't come as a shock as us Brits do the same. Staying at a Brit enclave in Spain was a depressing experience. No nutters, but no attempt to integrate with the Spanish either and a rather bad view of their host nation.

The government nevertheless has, from a security standpoint, a responsibility to tackle them. How is more difficult, but since every culture likes some form of party I'd suggest starting there.

@anon 8:57 - either you're trolling or too stupid to grasp the obvious point I was making.

CityUnslicker said...

Anon - ex-pat communities are fine as long as they don't engage in a war with the host. Spaniards may or may not like our retirees, but they bring money and jobs - not bombs and FGM.

SW - On balance I am still going to vote UKIP too. Most of their policies are for the birds, but they won't be getting close in my constituency. They are the only party with a pulse on the terrorist threat.

hovis said...

Anon at 8.44: It is no suprise that people wish to be together in a familar cultural surrounding - birds of a feather and all.

However when your customs and prefferred legal system directly contradict the law and customs of your host culture you become a problem. Your hypothetical Brits in Spain example is not a useful comparison as they do not for example seek to introduce say common law or believe allegiance to say the Queen or the UK has primnacy over Spanish law. Many of our own culturally enriched ghettos dwellers however do and as a result are colonists and should be treated accordingly.

L fairfax said...

@"Your hypothetical Brits in Spain example is not a useful comparison as they do not for example seek to introduce say common law or believe allegiance to say the Queen or the UK has primnacy over Spanish law. "
Good point surely one difference between an immigrant and a colonist is that an immigrants obeys their new country's law - a colonist tries to enforce their home country's law.

Anonymous said...

Back in 2000 Bradford Council's then Race Relations officer wrote a report which described the change in the Muslim community over the previous 40 years, how the first 60s arrivals expected to integrate and had photos taken in suits, wearing watches and holding radios, to send back home to the family. He then said the pattern had changed, from immigrant to colonist, and that new arrivals now expected to recreate their pattern of village life in Pakistan/Kashmir in Bradford suburbs.

(A year after his report there were violent riots in which white-owned and Hindu-owned businesses were burned out and white motorists were targeted with rocks - some seriously injured)

Anonymous said...

@CU and Hovis - the expats are not seeking that *now*, a couple of generations down the line? Exactly how many first generation Muslims were demanding the UK bow down to their culture during the original immigration waves? At a guess, I'd say zero.

That wasn't my point however. My point was we need to get these ghettos integrating, they're the source of the problem. You have kids being torn between two cultures and seeking some kind of concrete identity, and extremists offer the kind of simplistic answer they're after which is mainly Someone To Blame.

You can clamp down on immigration, you can funnel billions to the security services, but until we deal with integration issues (not assimilation) we'll still get fuckwits with bombs.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous: 6:30pm...

the expats are not seeking that *now*, a couple of generations down the line?

In the case of the majority of expats in Spain... Few OAPs are noted for their fecundity. :-)