Thursday 14 December 2017

Tories for Corbyn!

It is all very well making Parliament have a vote on the final Brexit deal. I still don't get what difference it will make:

1) It passes and so the House has had its say but to all practical intents and purposes it meant nothing.

2) They vote it down, but then what? A currency crisis for sure and a new political crisis. Either the UK crashes out without a deal if we are very close to March 2019 or a new Government is needed for a new negotiation.

The Tories, by dint of voting against their own bill, can't then try to form a new minority Government. So either the Labour Party take over with a silly minority or in some kind of Grand Coalition (mmm, how likely is that!).

Or we have an election, where justly the Tories would be routed for making such a mess of things since 2015.

And that means the most Left Wing Government ever being elected - along with a Brexit in Name Only. Truly the worst outcome imaginable. Yuck!


Sebastian Weetabix said...

Don’t local constituencies have the capacity to deselect?

I find it hard to imagine the likes of Grieve, Soubry or Allen are particularly popular with their local parties.

AndrewZ said...

"I still don't get what difference it will make"

It's striking just now many of today's politicians aren't actually very good at politics - not only the business of government, but the everyday business of scheming and plotting and manoeuvring for power. Perhaps it's the result of the 24-hour news cycle which means that they are all so focussed on winning the next day's headlines that they've never actually learned how to think strategically.

Matt said...

It's lining up to be a total car crash.

Started by the idiotic May going for the GE (egged on by the hopeless SPaDs, Timothy and Hill) which reduced the majority in the Commons.

Then the total collapse during the negotiations with the EU despite holding a Royal Flush.

Now the fact that Parliament have given themselves the ability to stop it all at the last minute.

I wonder what the Labour voters will do when they see their MPs voting against their wishes? Will they continue to vote for anything in a Red rosette or can they engage their brains long enough to vote differently?

Anonymous said...

Was lucky to hear Grieve speak on the issue at a meeting in QEII Hall last month. This is not some swivel eyed nutter but someone with a deep knowledge of the law and Parliament. As one of the last qualified AG's he knows his stuff unlike Rabb who sees everything as political point scoring. Useless character.

Whether Grieve was correct politically will depend on your viewpoint but he is someone who has deep convictions about the role of Parliament and it's sovereignty. It's not a political (or personal) plaything as they are finding out in America

Anonymous said...

Wonderful fuck-up.

The rebels are in the right though, although not all of them for the right reasons.

You don't get to circumvent Parliament just because your completely unnecessary election didn't go according to plan, potentially setting a precedent for further issues down the line.

I'm expecting the final deal to get scuppered, and any relief of the Remainers to be very short lived as they get a brutal lesson from Brussels in what the EU is about.

And what exactly will they renegotiate? Politically the EU wouldn't be able to offer much more without looking foolish, so there'd be an even less palatable option delivered.

And that is assuming the EU bothers to give more time to negotiate.

And I'm resigned to a Labour government next. The current youth have grown up with the fairy tale of happy shiny socialism, and no one has ever really countered that view very well. The very public failures of public transport privatisation have helped entrench that view too.

Sometimes an ideas time has come, and you've just got to wait out the shitstorm it brings. Five years of the reality that Magic Socialism doesn't make things better ought to be enough to ensure it gets another 40 years in the cold.

Daily Politics has had a right oily twat from Momentum on a few times, looks like the modern version of the Communist Party apparatchik who'd rock up to one of State Farms and walk away with most of the produce leaving the farming family to borderline starve. Exactly the kind of person to put paid to any dreams of equality as they engage in a modest re-enactment of the Red Terror.

Electro-Kevin said...

For all that I can't bring my self to vote Tory again.

Not again.

Anna Soubry sounded utterly awful and unlikeable on the Jeremy Vine show today - Nigel Evans was great and not just by comparison.

Anonymous said...

"Five years of the reality that Magic Socialism doesn't make things better ought to be enough to ensure it gets another 40 years in the cold."

Why do you think it would be five years ? Marxists, once in power, make sure they never lose elections. See Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, Zimbabwe, etc.

Forty or fifty years of Marxism is more likely. This isn't Socialists that we are threatened by, it's Marxist-Leninists. Harold Wilson was a Socialist.

Don Cox

Anonymous said...

@Don Cox

This is the UK, the ground isn't remotely like those nations who were mostly changed via violent means.

Attempts to make the UK Marxist would get very short shrift. Policy would have to get through Parliament, the Lords and any legal challenges up to the Supreme Court.

What we'll get is a raft of nationalisations and likely a few riots, most likely by students who'll think it'll just be like shouting out "pig!" in the street and smirking whilst getting a chat from the target, and not, say, like the Miners Strike where anyone looking a bit tasty could collect their teeth later from the mud.

Lets be clear, the Government can't manage to extract us from the EU without making it look like a 13th bonus task of Hercules, changing the foundation of the UK? Good luck.

Although McDonnell and Corbyn holed up in the New Forest, looking like a couple of grandparents having lost their marbles, and thinking they're freedom fighters, would make one hell of a good Armando Iannucci movie.

Anonymous said...

Parliament has already passed the Article 50 notification, which means that the UK is leaving the EU on 29th March, 2019, with or without a deal.

If there is no deal, or if Parliament rejects the deal on offer, then we will leave on that date, and trade under WTO rules.

The government now needs to do more to prepare for that eventuality, including on the legal aspect. In the last Budget, £3 billion was set aside for exactly that purpose, and more human and IT resources could be applied as needed.

Indeed, in many ways it would be a better outcome for the UK than the current Phase 1 agreement, in which the UK has offered to pay 40 billion pounds for nothing in return, plus accepting ECJ jurisdiction for eight more years, continuing mass EU immigration, and something called "regulatory alignment", which indicates our obeying EU rules in perpetuity.

Anonymous said...

"the rebels are in the right though"

Yes, I well remember the Parliamentary vote after the 1975 referendum.

Anonymous said...

I said that if May got us out, she'd be in the history books despite her incompetence. If we stay in, others will write those books.

Soubry, Hammond and co - what a thing to do to a PM literally hours before the next lot of talks - to undermine the UKs representative. They are agents of foreign influence.

Matt said...

The whole sovereignty of parliament thing is a load of crap. Was this foremost on MPs minds as they slavishly transcribed Brussels diktats into UK law? No it wasn't.

The whole question about Crown Prerogative isn't about bypassing parliament, it's a way of getting a whole loads of laws updated without wasting years of time doing it.

Grieve the w*nker knows this - he's waging the same war as the pig faced hag Miller. Both said it was for our good - both were/are wrong!

Charles said...

Small minded silly little people. Deselect them and get other small minded silly people who think like you. I am a leaver but the level of debate is awful.

James Higham said...

Two parties in one. Always was, they did for Maggie.

Electro-Kevin said...

Gardener Fisher

I listened to the Jeremy Vine show yesterday on which Anna Soubry and Nigel Evans appeared.

It was Remainer Soubry who sounded small minded. Her presumptions:

- Nigel Evans wanted No Deal

- The people did not know what they were voting for and did not vote for Hard Brexit

I can answer both. No-one *wants* No Deal but it should be on the table.

Oh yes, the people DID vote for full Brexit and none were clearer that Leave meant leaving the single market than the Remain campaign, the then PM and the then POTUS.

The voting slip did not mention 'hard' or 'soft'.

This vote - as far as I can see - weakens our negotiators as it makes No Deal more difficult (if not impossible) and may set back the leaving date, or stop leaving altogether, in all but name perhaps.

I believe this to be the plan. But yesterday it was Soubry who came over to millions of listeners sounding like a small minded nut job. Evans on the other hand was the model of what a reasonable politician should be. He won the logic hands down.

Interesting to note that 73% of MPs are Remain whereas around 52% of the voting population are Leave - we've known for a long while that Parliament reflects public opinion poorly on this and other issues.

And before these figures are countered with "those MPs were voted for by the majority of the voting population" a reminder is needed that the Referendum had the biggest turnout seen for any vote.

Something is wildly out of kilter here.

Electro-Kevin said...

On Wednesday the Government was defeated by 50.3% of the vote. We Leavers aren't small minded enough to ask for a second vote - despite the margin being a lot closer than the referendum result.

Anonymous said...

We Leavers aren't small minded enough to ask for a second vote - despite the margin being a lot closer than the referendum result.

Since this is Pantomime season - oh yes you are. (Leg pulling before you have a coronary EK)

Joking aside, now that Davis has delivered the first stage and I was taken by his lucidity on what is the difference between an agreement and legally binding, the game moves over to Phase 2.

Phase 2 is not played by the politician as such but by industries. Do they want to continue with "convergence" or give up selling to the EU. Client of mine has just decided to move a admittedly small production line to Czechia on the basis if they can get check Czechs over here, then send the work over there. Works for most industries including food processing.

What's the word from the boardrooms?

Electro-Kevin said...

I do too much hill running to get a coronary.

Prior to the referendum bro' in-law was busy outsourcing better jobs than those to the EU.

Anonymous said...

The UK is full of capitalists who want UK people to buy their products,
but don't want to pay UK people to produce them, so move production to Eastern Europe - Heinz, Cadbury or whatever they call themselves now, Twinings.

On the same topic ("we want you to buy them, we just don't want to pay you to make them"), I've just found my pharmacist has switched my generic pills from EU-manufactured, Israeli-owned Teva to an Indian company I've never previously heard of, but which it turns out has been sanctioned by both the FDA and the medicines regulator here. The only reason I enquired is that they don't seem to be as effective as the old pills.

The box still has a UK company logo, and it's impossible to find the actual manufacturer either from the enclosed leaflet or via Google - you have to ring the drug company who's name is on the box to find the real manufacturer.

Given what happened at Ranbaxy, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

I shall be asking my pharmacy for EU or US-produced generics, or finding a new pharmacy. And you try finding out from the medicines regulator how they test and monitor drug quality of overseas generics. I can't find it.