Tuesday, 3 November 2020

Trump's legacy

So with US polls open and a record turnout expected the US election will take centre stage for a few days. 

The election and indeed the shitshow that has been 2020. has exposed the deep divisions in US politics. 

I expect (n.b. this post may age poorly) Trump to lose quite badly. in poll averages he was 3-4% behind Hillary last time and it is double that to Biden this time. He may not lose in a landslide but he fluked it last time as it was. 

So what will be his legacy? Sadly for all of us 2020 will only ever be about Covid in historical terms. Trump will blame the virus and say no incumbent could ever win (how about that Jacinta Arden for you there Donald?) with the way it has impacted the US. 

What else will really last - his economic policies, his foreign policy, his social policy approach?

For me his theatrics and outright ignorance should rule him out as a great president, but on so many areas he ideas have been good, just poorly executed and also proclaimed with a vitriol that has been far too divisive. 

Plus, being a little parochial (aren't we all, trapped in our houses!), a Biden victory is a disaster for Brexit as the EU gains a new ally and we lose our best one. Another reason all the can-kicking of the remainers has harmed us no end. 

24 comments:

dearieme said...

Here's a joke for Corbyn to use.

"Who will win the US election?"

"Israel."

andrew said...

He treated truth as a thing that had no value.
If you cannot believe anything your leader says, why follow him?

I used to consider blair only fit for the fires of hell not because lied but he did not tell the truth. Such innocent days.

(Faced with a choice between a liar and an anti semite, i chose the liar so so much for consistency)

Anonymous said...

Trump's biggest negative legacy will be how divided he leaves the US (I am assuming he'll somehow scrape another 4 years), and how he leveraged it for votes. I don't throw the word 'treason' around lightly, and I don't do so now when I describe his actions as borderline treason.

Race has always been an issue in the US, in a way it never has been in the UK. We've had some baseline decency that, as a society as a whole, has acted as a floor that has ensured that the worst of us would know they'd get no validation for their actions.

We had the tube advertising that they didn't hire blacks, the US had sunset clauses at town and county level. We had "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish", they pursued across the nation building regulations to force Blacks in ghettos.

It's not even a left/right thing. White lefty hipsters have driven out Blacks from their neighbourhoods by gentrifying them and driving up prices. Saw this in action in St Louis the other year. Yet, the little pricks chant that black lives matter.

The difference is many on the right are conscious of what they're doing, the ones on the left haven't enough self-awareness.

And Trump plumbed those depths for votes. Obama stripped away some of that veneer just by being elected, his policies providing some justification, but Trump went and got out the acetone and his dog whistle.

He's the President who took common, human, decency out back and shot it. Has taken the US onto a path that could easily lead to civil war if rage on all sides isn't reined in.

His biggest positive legacy will be the end of unfettered globalisation and China being challenged.

Global trade has seen nations realise their power stops at their borders, but corporate power does not. Even the US, who can project power beyond its borders almost on a whim, has found itself without the level of control it would like.

Trump has signalled a change on that.

And the biggest beneficiary, China, who many of us thought would mellow from such contact has simply weaponised it. Again Trump, has called them out of it, and he's been right to do so.

On balance, I think history will paint him as a very poor President, albeit one who set in motion major, positive, changes for the world, but whose domestic record and poisoning of US politics damaged the US for decades.

As for who I'd like to win the election? Looking at both old farts, I have to say, hopefully, covid.

dearieme said...

"I think history will paint him as a very poor President": of course it will. It will be written by Democrats.

Anonymous said...

https://twitter.com/JuliansRum/status/1321670720942952451

E-K said...

One of the few recent Presidents who didn't meddle in other countries or invade them.

Of course there are deep divisions in US politics (as there are in UK politics)

When the Left win we accept the result. When we win the Left create merry hell and make our respective countries ungovernable.

Blair wasn't a force for unity - people like I (who accepted his wins despite loathing him) were a force for unity.

Sobers said...

What E-K said. Unity merely means the Left getting what it wants.

Thud said...

Given the insane level of opposition he has faced at every level he has achieved much more than I would ever have thought possible and the lefts hatred of him shows how transformative he has been, if he does get the boot we will miss him.

dearieme said...

Blair could still be a force for unity. All we have to do is hang him.

E-K said...

"but whose domestic record and poisoning of US politics damaged the US for decades."

You all have it arse about face. He was our last chance.

The MSM has proven how biased it is with the Hunter Biden cover up.

Only a shock jock President could cut through this (he did so by Tweet, which is always blunt) but the 'poisoning' of politics was already done... by the Left.

The Left could never accept a Trump/Brexit win and so the Western economy has been shut down over a 0.04% killer and - by pure coincidence - BLM/Green/anti Western politics pushed to the fore while it was happening.

If WFH were so good we would have done it before.

Soon people will realise that this situation is not temporary but it will be blamed on Trump, Brexit etc.

No. It was done by the BBC, Left etc who wanted to crash it all down.

CV-19 is God's gift to the Left as Jane Fonda said.



Anonymous said...

@EK

Trump was never a last chance for anyone.

The worst thing for me is, for years, I've excoriated the left for banging on about human rights, equality... All of which get binned as soon as ideology rears its head. The Castro's harassing gays? Journos? Doing torture? All magically forgive because something, something, socialism. So I mocked. I sneered. I laughed.

Trump proved the right* were absolutely no different.

People who labelled Blair as 'Bliar' were suddenly okay with lies. People who condemned Clinton as a draft dodger and womaniser, were suddenly fine with that**.

The Biden's may be corrupt and, if so, off to jail they should go. But why the cognitive dissonance over Trumps history? Hardly got clean hands has he?

If the right is going to whore out its supposed morals, well, expect to get fucked.

*In UK terms the Democrats are right wing, not left, they're on a par with traditional Tories, along with throwing up the odd Rory Stewart.

**The family knew a couple of Americans who looked up to JFK as something akin to a second coming, and yet Clinton was denounced as a fornicator. I can only assume they thought JFK just liked playing chess with the ladies.

Graeme said...

Bliar's lies cost lives, or have you forgotten the "weapons of mass destruction"? Trump deserves credit for not starting any new wars and leaving the Middle East in a much more stable position than any president since Reagan. What damage have his alleged lies done?

andrew said...

I cannot speak to his alleged lies.
There are, however, an awful lot of proven lies. Go and google.

Advanced societies can exist to a great extent because people trust each other. There is a raft of things - facts - that people agree to be true.
When people are unable to agree on basic realities (e.g. who is paying for the wall) because one side has 'facts' and one side has 'alternate facts' differences can not be resolved and society will slowly break down.

This lack of trust leads some people to do some fairly odd things - like drinking chloroquine phosphate, and then dying. (no this is not trump's fault)

All politicians sand the rough edges of the truth to some extent.
I excuse none of them.
Trump has taken this to a completely different level.
As such he deserves a different level of disapproval.

It is interesting to consider how society will work on a 'distrust' basis.

Your child comes home at 12pm. You told her to be back by 10pm. She says 'no you didnt'. You excuse the POTUS - occupier of the most responsible job on this planet of something you will not let your child get away with.

I actually like a lot of his policies, just not his morals.




Graeme said...

Most of those lies are just the sort of bullsh*t that any politician says. I have yet to see one which is more than a journalist (of unimpressive intellect) making a feeble quibble about something of little importance

Anonymous said...

@graeme - @andrew has covered the lies.

A lot of those lies speak as to his character, the marker pen and the hurricane being one of the most amusing which was the kind of thing a petulant 12 year old would do, not a grown man in possibly the most important role on the planet.

Nothing anyone says is going to stop you defending him though, which is fine.

It's just like arguing with Corbynistas, theres always goalposts to shift, media to blame, "misunderstanding", excuse after excuse after excuse.

His theme should be "He Hit Me (and it Felt Like a Kiss)"

I just don't get the mindset where it's plain a lot of people have hitched their self-worth to someone who'd toss them under the wheels of a passing truck for a quick buck.

I feel no real anger or hate, just irritation tinged with pity, maybe a little jealous I've not felt gooey-eyed about someone famous since my 20s.

As a note, Trump supported the invasion of Iraq, although he has since stated he didn't despite it being on actual record.

And if he wins this time, and he does start a war, I look forward as to why we'll all be told how it's a good thing now, because Trump.

E-K said...

The reason why we have Trump is because Reaganism was effectively banned as was Thatcherism here.

The people got sick of it. They voted in a shock-jock.

What to do with a BBC that hides the Biden issue and then says of postal voting "Postal votes always go Labour/Democrat"

Why do they ?

Is there no curiosity about this from the BBC ???

Both my lads got two votes when at university. I expect similar to be happening in America.

Why isn't the BBC upset that despite women's suffrage in certain communities they have to vote as told by the male head of the family ?

I hear Rees-Mogg says today "Lockdown strikes at the heart of Conservatism but we must do it in the fight against CV-19."

To which I would ask why his shitty party is letting through so many other non Conservative ideas which have nothing at all to do with CV-19... in fact should be stopped because of CV-19 (boat refugees.)

The Tories are dead.

They'll never win an election again after this.

Sebastian Weetabix said...

What’s the point in having elections if the left are just going to steal it anyway?

We heard it direct from Biden’s mouth: “we have the biggest and best voter fraud organisation”. Can you imagine the media reaction if Trump had said that? When Biden said it, crickets & tumbleweed.

This is the road to civil war.

andrew said...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/viral-posts-take-biden-quote-on-voter-fraud-out-of-context/

Quicj Take:
Social media posts shared by Eric Trump and Fox News host Jeanine Pirro take a quote by Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden out of context to claim he “admits to voter fraud.” Biden was actually describing his efforts to prevent voter fraud and suppression.

Full Story

In the weeks leading up to Election Day, President Donald Trump has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that voter fraud is rampant, as we’ve reported.

Meanwhile, viral social media posts shared in late October by his son Eric Trump and others take a video clip of former Vice President Joe Biden out of context to falsely suggest Biden admitted to creating voter fraud.

A post from Fox News host Jeanine Pirro shares a tweet from White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany that claims, “BIDEN ADMITS TO VOTER FRAUD!”

Biden actually said he was working to prevent voter fraud.

The posts isolate a clip from Biden’s Oct. 24 appearance on the progressive podcast “Pod Save America.” In the video clip shared in the viral posts, Biden says, “Secondly, we’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration — President Obama’s administration before this — we have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”

The comment was a short piece of Biden’s much longer response to a question from Dan Pfeiffer, one of the podcast hosts and a former communications advisor to former President Barack Obama.

Pfeiffer asked what Biden would say to people who haven’t voted yet or don’t have a plan to vote. In response, Biden gave a three-part answer. He first encouraged people to create a plan by going to IWillVote.com, a site hosted by the Democratic National Committee.

The second part of Biden’s answer began with the “voter fraud organization” clip. He then described ways people can find help if they have trouble voting.

Biden, Oct. 24: But one of the things that I think is most important is those who haven’t voted yet, first of all go to IWILLVOTE.com to make a plan exactly how you’re going to vote, where you’re going to vote, when you’re going to vote. Because it can get complicated, because the Republicans are doing everything they can to make it harder for people to vote — particularly people of color — to vote. So go to IWILLVOTE.com.

Secondly, we’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration — President Obama’s administration before this — we have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics. What the president is trying to do is discourage people from voting by implying that their vote won’t be counted, it can’t be counted, we’re going to challenge it and all these things. If enough people vote, it’s going to overwhelm the system.

You see what’s happening now, you guys know it as well as I do, you see the long, long lines and early voting. You see the millions of people who have already cast a ballot. And so, don’t be intimidated. If in fact you have any, any problem go to — and I don’t have the number but it’s 833-DEM-VOTE… Call that number. We have over a thousand lawyers, over a thousand of them, they’ll answer the phone, if you think there’s any challenge to your voting. Go to 833-DEM-VOTE, dial those letters on your phone. That will get you the assistance that we have already put in place.

When Biden used the phrase “voter fraud organization,” he was referring to the systems put into place to help people who have trouble voting. He wasn’t admitting to voter fraud.

Unknown said...

"When Biden used the phrase “voter fraud organization,” he was referring to the systems put into place to help people who have trouble voting. He wasn’t admitting to voter fraud."

But was being very careless with his use of English. If he had said "voter fraud prevention" he would have avoided an obvious trap.

Don Cox

YDG said...

RE: andrew @ 12:34 pm

"When people are unable to agree on basic realities (e.g. who is paying for
the wall) because one side has 'facts' and one side has 'alternate facts'
differences can not be resolved and society will slowly break down."

Although strangely, these "basic realities" on which we "agree" invariably
turn out to be ones the left finds palatable. Let's try an example.

Fact 1.

Black men are imprisoned for crimes of violence at a far higher rate than white men.

Fact 2.

Fact 1 is the result of systemic racism.

Fact 3.

White men are imprisoned for crimes of violence at a far higher rate than white women.

Fact 4.

Fact 3 is the result of white men being more violent than white women.

Are those facts on which you think we should all agree? If not, which one is
wrong?

Suff said...

Trumps Legacy “orange man bad”
Congratulations America you have just voted in your first female president and she’s black so ticks all the boxes. Obama didn’t really like like white people but kept it well hidden apart from his loathing of the English. Harris on the other hand. Expect all STEM subject stricken from education as white suprematist and replaced with re-education in critical race theory.
Apologies if I seem negative but those postal vote numbers are beyond belief and I won’t hold my breath for anybody questioning them. I’m sure due to there “success”, the same system will be rolled out across the world.
@ Andrew.+ annonimous So you can’t discipline your child because orange man introduced Lying to the world? And a cheap dig at having a crush. Our national sport is based on 22 premature donnas rolling and crying and cheating and lying to one person the ref ( the personification of the rules/ law) and we hold them up as gods. Grown men take their sons to watch these hero’s. Red shirt “ the video clearly shows that wasn’t a penalty”. Blue shirt “ it doesn’t matter your not a blue shirt and we deserved it” This is the level all debate has been reduced to as as,we shut down debate and freedom of speech
Ps I’m no fan of the Orange man but if Biden ( soon to be replaced) is the best they can come up with,to compete, it shows how incestuous the political world is.

Nick Drew said...

YDG - on "fact 2" you should read the works of Adolph Reed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_L._Reed_Jr.

he is a distinguished black American professor and writer. He'd disagree with you strongly, and he's certainly closer to it than I am

he despises self-appointed, self-advancing "black voices" who pupport to talk for "the community" but are in fact (to use his term) "ventriloquising" black Americans

his analysis is marxist, so he asserts it's a class matter, not a race matter

there is a heap of work which does not point in favour of your "fact 2" being a fact at all. Even "fact 1" needs a lot of qualifying.

Like I say, he's closer to it than I am

andrew said...


I feel that voting for someone who lies a lot provides something between tolerance and approval of that lying.

If you tolerate/approve of a negative moral quality in one person it is harder to disapprove of the same negative moral quality in another.

Each individual person can choose where to draw their own 'line' on things like this. Real life is complicated and situational. Truth after several pints in a pub can be different to truth that impacts on the lives and values of 200m odd people in one of the worlds richest countries.
(I wish) The US (would) should hold its leaders to a high standard.


Anonymous said...

@suff - it wasn't a dig, it is genuinely how the Trumpentum brigade come across. If I'm not going to be overly impressed by starstruck droolers on the left, the right sure as hell isn't getting a free pass when they do the same.

Blame lies with Tim Berners-Lee, someone who has become the new Thomas Midgley Jr, invented something that on the face of it is a massive benefit to humanity - in this case, the internet - and which turns out like dropping millions of AK-47s and ammo across Europe during the Hundred Years War or Mongolia when they were really getting ready to expand their horizons at sword-point. A really, really, really bad idea.

And I speak as someone whose career has mostly been internet-related, and who benefits massively from it. I'll swap that for the kooks sticking to furtive whispers in bars over infecting the whole bloody western civilisation into fracturing into tribes.

Like I said, I'm not annoyed at the Trump fans, but I am annoyed, mostly at humanity who cannot see a tool without finding some way to jab it up its own arse, just because.

There are attempts to couch things in identity politics, but truth be told, the Dems have always done that - the Dixiecrats sold themselves to white people scared of black people - and the Republicans carried that baton after the Dems got shamed out of it.

Nah, this is on us as the west as a whole, we've all got a little bit of blame that has snowballed into this shit show. Putin and Xi have probably got someone to add a little needed bounce to Radiohead's 'Just' and are spending time dancing away and laughing like a lottery winner.