Russia finally revealed their previously undisclosed aims for the special military operation.
Officially it is the denazification of Ukraine. Putin can declare that whenever he likes. He might even claim that victory on 9 May. Something like,
“…despite the nato provocations and support for Nazis, and their attempt to deceive the Russia forces into destroying Kyiv, we knew that the steelworks were the centre of the Nazi regime. That area has been taken and all Nazis destroyed. So now the peace loving heroes return home from a successful mission.”
Russian media is Putin’s media. If he says the incursion to crush Nazis has been a success and is now complete, no one will challenge it.
Looking forward more to what Johnson has to say when the Tories are wiped out in rural areas. Seems the message on the doorstep is "No vote till that shit is gone". Certainly is in our house. Hopefully they will lose hundreds of seats - whilst I have no faith in any possible successors, they can't possibly do as much damage to the country and our democracy as this fat bastard has done.
Accepting BQ's point that whatever he says will be good enough for his benighted countrymen ...
it has to be a stunt, doesn't it? And able to be delivered 'unilaterally': one that can be guaranteed to work & not dependent upon the extremely unreliable performance of his troops
that means, either something that happens by the stroke of a pen (something where "the lines of logistics are very short" - http://www.cityunslicker.co.uk/2021/07/afghanistan-and-important-political.html) - which is presumably the thought that lies behind suggestions he'll declare national mobilisation. I am sure we could come up with others of that kind ...
(but I doubt China will be willing to gratify him with a new treaty or similar)
o the reports don't suggest anything quick, easy & genuinely impressive could be achieved in Moldova/Transnistria
o Kaliningrad is well staked-out by NATO (albeit a very tricky problem for the West)
o all the Baltic countries, incl Finland, have been on a high state of alert for months
o use of a low-yield nuke would be a stunner, but might leave him with consequences nobody would be cheering, even in Red Square
If it's to be more than rhetorical, he'll want something that will be played repeatedly on the bigscreen at Red Square AND on all global meejah
is he left simply with a massive bunker-buster raid on Azovstal, photographed from multiple angles by drone?
I'll say one thing, while it's "Putin this, and Putin that, and Putin go away", no one anywhere is suggesting that the dementia patient in the WH has any influence at all on "Western" i.e. US policy. It's been consistent for decades, ever since Putin came to his concordat (keep out of politics and you can keep your ill-gotten gains) with the oligarchs.
Funny to think that if he had accepted Berezofsky's deal of a Potemkin democracy the US would have loved and supported him as they did Yeltsin.
"Berezovsky also had another brilliant idea, which to his regret Putin did not grasp: creating a fake two-party system, with Putin at the head of a socialist-democrat sort of party and Berezovsky leading a neoconservative one, or the other way around."
Two parties, bitterly divided over (say) abortion but with the same underlying agenda - oligarch enrichment - thank God it could never happen here or in the US!
Here's Zelensky after his installation, making nice noises about Russian speakers in the East ("language should never divide our country"). As you may (or probably don't) know, Ukraine last year banned Russian-language education anywhere in Ukraine, one of the many sticks poking the bear.
And now the massed Peoples Bicycle Brigade on their way to Kiev. Their brothers in arms are riding (the last of) our glorious tanks over the Ukrainian army as I speak. We blew away every polluting steelworks - Green is our victory. Glorious (faux) victories for month after month mean we can cycle right into that vile TV huckster's studio - and shoot him. Victory to the people - and all my mates.
dearieme - in what world would Xi send an assassin? Assume it happened, and Russia was "open to the world" (to be looted again), all this would do is hand Russia's resources back to US ("the West") and move China straight to the front of the regime change queue.
The US loved China when it was just a way to get cheap, intelligent, conscientious labour rather than those bolshy US workers with ideas about 'living standards'.
"the typical man with a full-time job–the one at the statistical middle of the middle–earned $50,383 last year, the Census Bureau reported this week. The typical man with a full-time job in 1973 earned $53,294, measured in 2014 dollars to adjust for inflation."
It doesn't love China so much now it's eating the US' lunch.
There's a weird sort of parallel in the West now to the Soviet economy in the 1930s, when personal consumption was savagely suppressed in order to fund massive industrialisation - tractor plants, autos, aircraft, hydro electricity, most of which was designed and overseen from the US.
But it probably saved Russia in WW2.
Now living standards and real wages are being suppressed all over Europe - while City bonuses are back big time. But to what end are these real wages being driven down?
I declare Ukraine is now part of Russia. The security operation is now over. We now offer Russian passports to all our new russian citizens.
There are a couple of minor security actions going on in response to the property damage and civilian deaths caused by a few small groups of NATO/CIA backed terrorists. They will be dealt with. Russia will act to protect russian speaking citizens from harm anywhere in the world.
@Matt. Maybe it depends on your industry? I left a director/management position in the building trade in 1982 to switch to computing. By the time I retired nearly two years ago I had trebled my 1983 equivalent salary.
Reports yesterday that with much tidying-up in evidence Putin intends to hold a parade in Mariupol itself! Not with him taking the salute there in person, methinks ...
More like a "live broadcast from our newly-liberated city, the object of all our plans, Crimea is now safe for ever"? Or maybe a judiciously *ahem* pre-recorded parade from M ..?
Ben Wallace (who? - UK Defence Sec) seems to think Putin will declare mass mobilization on V-Day. Really? In the days of the Red Army they had a system for doing exactly that, and did mass conscription quite effectively every year (of the relevant cohort). It takes massive logistics, and a huge training infrastructure + cadre of instructors permanently in place. (It was complex enough for the UK in the '50s, let alone in a country spanning 9 time-zones and a vast number of different languages.)
Well, he might announce it I suppose - Putin announces all manner of BS. But it ain't gonna happen. He'll stick with mercenaries and press-ganged east-Ukranians, poor saps. There can't be a regular army unit left complete in the whole of Russia right now: if not having sent manpower, at least stripped of ammo and kit. Except in the Moscow Military District / praetorian guard, of course ...
"In a Facebook post following the arrest, Ukraine’s security service said it had “reason to believe” Shariy was acting “on the order” of foreign agents. “This detention is another testimony to the fact that every traitor of Ukraine will sooner or later receive their deserved punishment,” the security service added."
Dunderhead just lost us 30+ seats in Somerset, Lib Dems now running the show with a big majority. Shows you what the people of Somerset think of Bunter. Labour and Greens 5 seats each
What's amusing round my way is that the new Green areas tend to be the new private estates (all gas-fired, all with at min 1 car, mostly 2) built in the last 15 years on previously almost pristine countryside.
Retail distribution sheds are going up on what were hop fields less than 20 years ago.
No matter how bad the traffic, never build a relief road - it'll be infilled like a flash and then expansion outwards will start.
> army unit ... at least stripped of ammo and kit Ahem. Where do you think the £1bn worth of British gear that Boris and Ben Wallace have shipped off towards Ukraine came from?
Why the need to claim victory at all? No need for that as a comms strategy so very short sighted
Men and women of Russia, today we give thanks and remembrance to the great sacrifice made by our forefathers in the Great Patriotic War. They shed their blood and gave their lives to protect the Motherland they loved.
'It gives me no great pleasure to remind you we too are now involved in our own great struggle against a resurgence of those very forces of Nazism they fought.
...Fed by venal Fat Bastard Boris, Idiot Supply Teacher Truss and Pedo Hair Sniffer Biden...we cannot stand idly by ... '
Ok the second sentence is mine but you get the idea.
"Nick Drew said... Fortunately UK isn't trying to wage all-out war against Ireland
8:16 pm"
Quite. We've tried that before, and failed... ps. my beloved Irish Granny (who lived to 102, still bright as a button, recalled seeing the Post Office going up in flames in Dublin. Tales to tell...
I don't think anyone ever waged all out war against Ireland, at least since Cromwell's day. A tragedy though that the field guns the British Army rushed south to the Free State at dead of night helped destroy the Four Courts and 800-odd years of Irish historical records including the 1840-1911 censuses - makes researching Irish family a real tough job.
All out war means not giving a hoot about civilian casualties or indeed encouraging the news of massacres to spread in order to drive the population out as refugees. I seem to recall Israel did that in the late 40s - unpleasant but effective from their perspective. Hence the still-extant camps in places like Lebanon.
29 comments:
"Victory Parade is postponed until 9th July".
Thank you.
Only one bullet needed, isn't there ?
How does he address The People? Presumably not "Comrades ..."?
Joe Brandon would probably say either "Ma fellow Americans" or if that's too difficult for him "Folks".
Do yer Frogs still use "Français et Française"? Not very modern, eh? Only two?
OK: so Putin says "Citizens!" A shot rings out. The End.
N.B. President Xi's hired assassin has of course used an American gun and an American bullet.
"I hereby declare open 'The Age of the Dictator', my new 1930's-themed Adventure Park:
- Ride tanks!
- Fire rockets!
- Burn villages!
- Invade neighbors!
- Adulate strong leader!
- Sleep in concrete bunkers!
- Make tasty pies from scraps!
Russia finally revealed their previously undisclosed aims for the special military operation.
Officially it is the denazification of Ukraine.
Putin can declare that whenever he likes. He might even claim that victory on 9 May. Something like,
“…despite the nato provocations and support for Nazis, and their attempt to deceive the Russia forces into destroying Kyiv, we knew that the steelworks were the centre of the Nazi regime. That area has been taken and all Nazis destroyed. So now the peace loving heroes return home from a successful mission.”
Russian media is Putin’s media. If he says the incursion to crush Nazis has been a success and is now complete, no one will challenge it.
How come the guy behind me gets all the medals - and I get none?
This Special Operation will continue until I get a medal. End of.
Looking forward more to what Johnson has to say when the Tories are wiped out in rural areas. Seems the message on the doorstep is "No vote till that shit is gone". Certainly is in our house. Hopefully they will lose hundreds of seats - whilst I have no faith in any possible successors, they can't possibly do as much damage to the country and our democracy as this fat bastard has done.
Accepting BQ's point that whatever he says will be good enough for his benighted countrymen ...
it has to be a stunt, doesn't it? And able to be delivered 'unilaterally': one that can be guaranteed to work & not dependent upon the extremely unreliable performance of his troops
that means, either something that happens by the stroke of a pen (something where "the lines of logistics are very short" - http://www.cityunslicker.co.uk/2021/07/afghanistan-and-important-political.html) - which is presumably the thought that lies behind suggestions he'll declare national mobilisation. I am sure we could come up with others of that kind ...
(but I doubt China will be willing to gratify him with a new treaty or similar)
o the reports don't suggest anything quick, easy & genuinely impressive could be achieved in Moldova/Transnistria
o Kaliningrad is well staked-out by NATO (albeit a very tricky problem for the West)
o all the Baltic countries, incl Finland, have been on a high state of alert for months
o use of a low-yield nuke would be a stunner, but might leave him with consequences nobody would be cheering, even in Red Square
If it's to be more than rhetorical, he'll want something that will be played repeatedly on the bigscreen at Red Square AND on all global meejah
is he left simply with a massive bunker-buster raid on Azovstal, photographed from multiple angles by drone?
I'll say one thing, while it's "Putin this, and Putin that, and Putin go away", no one anywhere is suggesting that the dementia patient in the WH has any influence at all on "Western" i.e. US policy. It's been consistent for decades, ever since Putin came to his concordat (keep out of politics and you can keep your ill-gotten gains) with the oligarchs.
Funny to think that if he had accepted Berezofsky's deal of a Potemkin democracy the US would have loved and supported him as they did Yeltsin.
https://latitude.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/till-death-berezovsky-defends-backing-putin
"Berezovsky also had another brilliant idea, which to his regret Putin did not grasp: creating a fake two-party system, with Putin at the head of a socialist-democrat sort of party and Berezovsky leading a neoconservative one, or the other way around."
Two parties, bitterly divided over (say) abortion but with the same underlying agenda - oligarch enrichment - thank God it could never happen here or in the US!
Here's Zelensky after his installation, making nice noises about Russian speakers in the East ("language should never divide our country"). As you may (or probably don't) know, Ukraine last year banned Russian-language education anywhere in Ukraine, one of the many sticks poking the bear.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Soulitude17/status/1521864943280218112
Cue trumpets etc.
And now the massed Peoples Bicycle Brigade on their way to Kiev. Their brothers in arms are riding (the last of) our glorious tanks over the Ukrainian army as I speak. We blew away every polluting steelworks - Green is our victory. Glorious (faux) victories for month after month mean we can cycle right into that vile TV huckster's studio - and shoot him. Victory to the people - and all my mates.
More martial music and fade to polar bear shoot.
dearieme - in what world would Xi send an assassin? Assume it happened, and Russia was "open to the world" (to be looted again), all this would do is hand Russia's resources back to US ("the West") and move China straight to the front of the regime change queue.
The US loved China when it was just a way to get cheap, intelligent, conscientious labour rather than those bolshy US workers with ideas about 'living standards'.
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-typical-male-u-s-worker-earned-less-in-2014-than-in-1973/
"the typical man with a full-time job–the one at the statistical middle of the middle–earned $50,383 last year, the Census Bureau reported this week. The typical man with a full-time job in 1973 earned $53,294, measured in 2014 dollars to adjust for inflation."
It doesn't love China so much now it's eating the US' lunch.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/us-wont-rule-out-military-action-if-china-establishes-base-in-solomon-islands
There's a weird sort of parallel in the West now to the Soviet economy in the 1930s, when personal consumption was savagely suppressed in order to fund massive industrialisation - tractor plants, autos, aircraft, hydro electricity, most of which was designed and overseen from the US.
But it probably saved Russia in WW2.
Now living standards and real wages are being suppressed all over Europe - while City bonuses are back big time. But to what end are these real wages being driven down?
I declare Ukraine is now part of Russia.
The security operation is now over.
We now offer Russian passports to all our new russian citizens.
There are a couple of minor security actions going on in response to the property damage and civilian deaths caused by a few small groups of NATO/CIA backed terrorists. They will be dealt with.
Russia will act to protect russian speaking citizens from harm anywhere in the world.
My fear is a NATO-sponsored terrorist attack, either on the parade or its spectators. A 9/11 style spectacle.
It's unlikely the US can let this pass without doing something.
Oh yeah, right, we all lie awake worrying about that one
Anonymous @ 12:00
My salary is about the same now as it was 21 years ago adjusted for inflation.
And that's in what is supposedly a well paid sector of the economy (telecoms).
“My fellow Russians, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw The West forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."
@Matt. Maybe it depends on your industry? I left a director/management position in the building trade in 1982 to switch to computing. By the time I retired nearly two years ago I had trebled my 1983 equivalent salary.
Reports yesterday that with much tidying-up in evidence Putin intends to hold a parade in Mariupol itself! Not with him taking the salute there in person, methinks ...
More like a "live broadcast from our newly-liberated city, the object of all our plans, Crimea is now safe for ever"? Or maybe a judiciously *ahem* pre-recorded parade from M ..?
Ben Wallace (who? - UK Defence Sec) seems to think Putin will declare mass mobilization on V-Day. Really? In the days of the Red Army they had a system for doing exactly that, and did mass conscription quite effectively every year (of the relevant cohort). It takes massive logistics, and a huge training infrastructure + cadre of instructors permanently in place. (It was complex enough for the UK in the '50s, let alone in a country spanning 9 time-zones and a vast number of different languages.)
Well, he might announce it I suppose - Putin announces all manner of BS. But it ain't gonna happen. He'll stick with mercenaries and press-ganged east-Ukranians, poor saps. There can't be a regular army unit left complete in the whole of Russia right now: if not having sent manpower, at least stripped of ammo and kit. Except in the Moscow Military District / praetorian guard, of course ...
ND - So "He is about to take the whole of Europe and if we don't stop him..." was nonsense after all.
BS maybe, but the economic fallout of encouraging war in Ukraine is going to hit us very hard and that will be the least of it.
No Guardian report on this, can't understand it
https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-arrests-ukrainian-blogger-accused-by-kyiv-of-high-treason/
"In a Facebook post following the arrest, Ukraine’s security service said it had “reason to believe” Shariy was acting “on the order” of foreign agents. “This detention is another testimony to the fact that every traitor of Ukraine will sooner or later receive their deserved punishment,” the security service added."
I'm sure he'll get a fair trial ;-)
War and rumours of war.
https://navy-matters.blogspot.com/2022/05/sorry-cant-do-it.html
Dunderhead just lost us 30+ seats in Somerset, Lib Dems now running the show with a big majority. Shows you what the people of Somerset think of Bunter. Labour and Greens 5 seats each
We got out just in time...
What's amusing round my way is that the new Green areas tend to be the new private estates (all gas-fired, all with at min 1 car, mostly 2) built in the last 15 years on previously almost pristine countryside.
Retail distribution sheds are going up on what were hop fields less than 20 years ago.
No matter how bad the traffic, never build a relief road - it'll be infilled like a flash and then expansion outwards will start.
> army unit ... at least stripped of ammo and kit
Ahem. Where do you think the £1bn worth of British gear that Boris and Ben Wallace have shipped off towards Ukraine came from?
Fortunately UK isn't trying to wage all-out war against Ireland
Why the need to claim victory at all? No need for that as a comms strategy so very short sighted
Men and women of Russia, today we give thanks and remembrance to the great sacrifice made by our forefathers in the Great Patriotic War. They shed their blood and gave their lives to protect the Motherland they loved.
'It gives me no great pleasure to remind you we too are now involved in our own great struggle against a resurgence of those very forces of Nazism they fought.
...Fed by venal Fat Bastard Boris, Idiot Supply Teacher Truss and Pedo Hair Sniffer Biden...we cannot stand idly by ... '
Ok the second sentence is mine but you get the idea.
"Nick Drew said...
Fortunately UK isn't trying to wage all-out war against Ireland
8:16 pm"
Quite. We've tried that before, and failed... ps. my beloved Irish Granny (who lived to 102, still bright as a button, recalled seeing the Post Office going up in flames in Dublin. Tales to tell...
I don't think anyone ever waged all out war against Ireland, at least since Cromwell's day. A tragedy though that the field guns the British Army rushed south to the Free State at dead of night helped destroy the Four Courts and 800-odd years of Irish historical records including the 1840-1911 censuses - makes researching Irish family a real tough job.
All out war means not giving a hoot about civilian casualties or indeed encouraging the news of massacres to spread in order to drive the population out as refugees. I seem to recall Israel did that in the late 40s - unpleasant but effective from their perspective. Hence the still-extant camps in places like Lebanon.
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