One of the great virtues of the USA is that individual states have a great deal of autonomy over large swathes of policy-making, and can effectively conduct experiments that the rest of us can watch. Could be viewed as an extension of 'fail fast, fail cheaply' capitalism that confers those systematic advantages that so bewilder socialists and statists all over - because of course when they take an action, it's because they are right - and there'll be no going back or letting empirical failure get in the way of determined execution of the policy.
If that's the hardened mindset, then the warnings of conservatives like Burke and Johnson against making changes without serious proof of benefit, are doubly appropriate. What are we to make of the two ultra-significant social experiments about to be kicked off?
Australia's move to ban under-16s from having social meejah accounts is perhaps in the 'US states experimental' category. A relatively small western country, with representative social concerns, is trying something prima facie of enormous difficulty but with clear social ramifications. Perhaps it's so implausible they'll succeed as to make it all a bit hypothetical (I don't recall the illegality of underage drinking stopping me buying a pint in a pub at the age of 16**). What if it has a genuine impact? FB et al sure as hell don't want to trip up complacently on this one, and have it sweep the rest of the world. How will they react: ultra-cooperative? dismissive? faux-cooperative? Go Australia!, I say: let us know how you get on.
Here at home we have the looming Assisted Dying Act as the Bill goes into further stages. What have people made of 'experiments' etc elsewhere? To hear the Bill's sponsors, they've thought of everything. But here's an interesting article on the Oregon 'precedent', which shows how what we might call "legal interpretation creep" is an ever-present possibility. We also know that some proponents of euthanasia have every intention of broadening the scope at the first opportunity. Why couldn't the Act be for a trial period of, say, 5 years with a sunset clause?
I'm sure there are many wise thoughts out there on both issues (Kev has already contributed on the second), which I hereby solicit BTL.
ND
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** I'll bet many of you have the same experience. The principle in those days was: "Lads gotta learn how to handle their drink & take their turn at bar billiards quietly in the corner".
26 comments:
Nick,
Alas, the days of such tolerance for underage drinking are long gone — destroyed (as with so much else) by NuLabour through its imposition of massive, personal fines for bar staff.
It has been further undermined by the pernicious “Challenge 21” and, subsequently, “Challenge 25” — which are enforced by local council licensing authorities.
The “Challenge…” campaigns are an obvious social element that is acting as a prelude to the raising of the drinking age — expect to see that on Labour’s agenda within the next five years…
DK
Hey - how the Devil are you?
When I was a lad the Scottish rules that covered, for instance, golf clubs, would let me have a beer at 16 if (i) I was drinking with an adult, and (ii) food was being consumed. So I could simply have a beer and a sandwich while chatting with friends of my parents.
(I think it was 16. It couldn't have been 14, could it?)
What an excellent law - anything that encourages adolescents to learn to converse with adults is surely a good thing.
Anyhoo: death camps. I haven't read the Bill so I can only recount my emotions. (i) I am old and would like the opportunity to opt to end it if I'm in a hopeless state. (ii) Of course the law will be abused - that too is part of the human condition. It will probably also be subject to the slippery slope. (iii) Don't tell me about alternative NHS care - I am mindful of the pain the bastards needlessly made my sister suffer.
Come to think of it, could we arrange it so that every case of euthanasia is accompanied by the execution of an incompetent sadist on the NHS staff, please?
I am deeply relaxed about the assisted dying bull. This is because the state is so incompetent you will be dead of natural causes long before they get round to euthanasing you.
On the cheerier subject of boys and beer I have found this. I smiled. Them wuz the days, eh?
"For over a hundred years, until the Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 came into force, private members’ clubs were not ‘licensed’.
Instead, they occupied a special position outwith the mainstream licensing system with the ability to supply alcohol resting on a certificate of registration granted by the sheriff (In fact, alcohol wasn’t “sold”: rather, the alcohol stock was treated as the property of the club’s members and it was supplied on the payment of cash into the club’s funds)."
It will be used to clear the NHS waiting lists first and if there’s not too much civil unrest it will be used to eliminate politicians who are a threat to TTK.
Jolly super, thanks — still lurking about and reading the blogs via the magic of RSS. And occasionally writing some stuff over here: https://armchairgeneral.substack.com/
DK
"legal interpretation creep" is an ever-present possibility.
For which, you only have to look at the Abortion Act 1967.
"Safe, legal and rare" was what we were promised. In practice it's just another form of contraception.
I think you could drink if you were having a meal in a restaurant from age 14, assuming you were with adults.
(That was before there were things called grooming gangs)
"I don't recall the illegality of underage drinking stopping me buying a pint in a pub at the age of 16**"
No, but those rules prevent every 12 year old carrying around bottles of cheap cider and rolling up to school dead drunk at 9am. Yes there are always going to be teens close to the drinking age who get around the rules, who sneak into pubs and get indoctrinated into the social niceties of drinking. But even the rule breaking is a form of control. Its not unlimited 24/7 access to alcohol, which is what we are talking about with regards to social media. And the same principle will apply to SM. Of course kids will try and get around the ban, and will succeed. But it won't be as easy as it is now. It'll be easier for kids who don't really want to be part of it to say no, it'll be easier for parents to say no, and after you've had your account closed down a few times and all your contacts deleted because the SM company has cottoned on you're not old enough, maybe then you'll give up and go out and do something else.
No ban will be 100% effective. But even one that is 50% effective may have positive effects.
We already have "assisted dying" for our steel industry, our motor industry, even our oil/gas boiler industry - Worcester Bosch and all the other manufacturers will be spare parts only.
Industries like motor and oil and gas boilers grew organically, as did the component manufacturers that served them. But our wind turbine and solar panel industry (it it exists) didn't grow organically - it mostly exists in the Far East and it came into being here by Government fiat.
Blimey, Devil's Kitchen, there's a blast from the past 😂
The halcyon days of the blogosphere 😊
Well, you used to get away with underage drinking but the market changed and it got abused - by the drinkers and the do gooders.
Now you can bowl along the motorway at 80 if you don't overdo it and if you check out the CPS guidelines you can help granny on her way and get away with it.
So we sort of tried the 'fail fast, fail cheaply' idea but we made it 'fail expensively, fail slowly'. Australia is a marketplace where new products get tried out. Rich, well educated, young and away from the fuddy duddies of EU and the loonies in the USA. So a good place to try the kiddy protection.
Likely the dimwits will obey and the brighter ones get round the barrier. So the policy will be held up as a great success to be copied everywhere by the quicker sharper political operators. Then failure comes later on and 10 years down the pike - no difference except enriched lawyers.
The assisted dying act is still in its cradle and is deliciously silent on process. Plenty of time for the pollys to make a mess of it. And the fees, my dear the fees. Your trembling hand signs the form and you chuck it in the mail to the High Court. What they do with it, when and what if judge says no or busybody sticks an oar in is entirely unstated.
The SM ban is a good idea in theory, it's just how it's enforced. Anyone can put in a fake DOB (in fact, I recommend it, to reduce quality of matching data, but maybe don't knock too many years off) or claim to be over 18.
I suspect after the first couple of fines they'll bring in verified accounts, and blame the government for the added friction in the hope of deterring other governments.
The downside to that, is that SM accounts can start becoming de facto digital ID cards, anyone want to go visit that dystopia?
Australia might have been better adding in a law that states that SM companies are liable for anon accounts, and they must allow anon accounts, with verified accounts liable for their own posting, to head that off.
Assisted dying is a thorny one, it's right there should be a mechanism for it, but the opportunities for abuse are rife.
I don't have a lot of time for the religious fruitcakes who are hunky dory with other peoples suffering for their particular brand of sky fairy, but those who query if the process could be abused are worth listening to.
If, and when, it becomes law, be interesting to see that stats - people who are capable of communication and of sound mind, are one thing, people who require third party to interpret are another.
I look forward to the inevitable movie about someone who is a lot like Stephen Hawking was, having their voice system hacked so it seems like they want to die, but are really not wanting to. Starring Olivia Colman, obviously.
Underage drinking - back in the 90's there were plenty of underage drinkers around Oldham and Manchester, I was playing pool and drinking lager at 14. I knew a couple of ladies (not in the biblical sense) younger still, one under the watchful eye of her parents.
One Monday night, the DJ announced an under 16's bus pass had been found, and advised the owner not to come and collect it.
We had a few moments of drinking White Lightning and Thunderbird in the park too.
It was all rather harmless, and we learned to behave, lest we find ourselves barred until we hit 18, but I can imagine there were some darker aspects. Towards the 00s there were certainly cars with sober drivers looking for easy sex, willing or otherwise, circling the towns in the early hours, and those drivers were usually of a more ethnic persuasion.
Over in the States, Hunter doesn't have to plea-bargain. "Now, to prove your co-operation, can you tell us what "10% for the big guy" referred to exactly?"
Back in manufacturing, both UK and Eurozone are in trouble today.
Maybe just after a pandemic and during a war where bad actors have slashed cheap European energy supplies isn't the best time to shut down several major industries and replace them by imports?
I suspect originally, Biden was sure he would win. So no pardon was necessary. The verdict would be of a persuadable nature. A re trial would sort the problem.
But Joe got bumped. So he continued the fiction of no pardon, as Kamala would win. And Trump being about to quash his own trails was a big part of Democrat screeching.
However, she lost.
So Joe has no choice but to pardon the guilty.
Opening the way for Trump to pardon absolutely everyone, ( if necessary) in 2028
I still wonder where in 2020 Biden found so many more votes than Obama got. And then they all vanished in 2024 ...
When the Guardian beg for money I feel like reminding them that they all swore
a) the 2020 vote was kosher
b) Jan 6th was a serious attempt to overthrow the USG.
What's happening in Tblisi is more of a serious attempt, even more so what happened in Turkey a few years back or what's happening in Aleppo.
We used to drink pints in school uniform ! The tobacconist had an open packet of B&H to sell the kids singles @ 5p each.
Aged 16 we all crammed into an older mates car and shared a peep hole in a seedy Soho venue until our pocket money ran out.
It was a much nicer and much funnier world. And if it's going to be Woke in old age then give me Soylent Green.
Off topic but might we worth a topic later if ND has any views to share. DH has been around for ever but still has enthusiasm for the subject.
https://dieterhelm.co.uk/energy-climate/climate-realism-time-for-a-re-set/
Nick, am I going mad but haven’t the government said they’re going to nationalise an industry they’ve forbidden us to have? Admittedly, I last did some chemistry 54 years ago, but don’t we need a blast furnace and coke?
The stat which struck me from that Dieter Helm link was that in the last eight years, China have emitted more CO2 than the UK have in the last 300-odd years.
DB, a glance at some of Miliband's performances on TikTok etc and you'll know it is he that is stark, staring bonkers, not us mere taxpayers.
New post shortly on DH, Mili etc etc
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