Wednesday, 17 September 2014

One more day Scotland!

Struggling against the weight of work to find time to post properly. However, later this week should ease up.

The polls are so close in the Scottish referendum that it looks to me like Yes will win as the polls won't have caught enough first time voters. Salmond's convincing performance opposite Brown and Milliband, as well as Cameron should still win through.

Not long to go....

39 comments:

Electro-Kevin said...

I hope it's a Yes vote. We simply can't afford the Scots anymore.

The destruction of Great Britain and a change of name for our country. It seems likely that this is to happen before the Conservative party disbands and renames - which rather proves that party politics comes before everything else in the UK.

Democracy ? Pah ! Politics is for the politicians - not the people.

BTW. We've seen Mr Cameron suck up to the Scots like a jilted teenager yet he treats his own people with contempt and calls us names - never appologising for it and never thanking us for our maturity and endless patience on this and other matters.

BE said...

Forward England!

I watched Salmond last night and he is brilliant. Everything he said was bullshit, of course, but I can see why the grumpy and stupid fall under his spell. Nothing will be worse, and everything will be better; we'll be best friends with our new non-foreign neighbour. Amazing. And barely challenged by Dimby.

I will be sad to see Scotland go, but once the vote is in I will be expecting the UK government to be assertive in its pursuit of E/W/NI interests. I hope there is plenty of barbed wire on standby. 18 months? Give them until Monday 9am.

DtP said...

I too hope it's a Yes simply because it will be hilarious. I gave up a long time ago listening to the pros and cons of most political arguments and simply took Raymond Chandler's advice to 'follow the money'. Be brave Scotland, be stars!

Ossian said...

As a Yes, if it is a No, then it will be "Forward England".

If we can't leave you, perhaps you'd be good enough to leave us.

Sackerson said...

If it's bad for them to do it, is it not to our advantage? If it's good for them, should we not wish them well?

BE said...

Ossian I do hope that will be the next step in the event of No. Salmond and his crew have now soured relations beyond repair, with a bit of additional help from Brown, Cameron and Miliband.

The BBC has a rolling sidebar thing on it, with snippets mailed or tweeted in. I saw one saying that austerity is the fault of the union. I could not agree more: had there been no union we would not have had Brown and Darling running us into the ground.

A society in which 40+% of voters believe Alex Salmond's bullshit is not one I want influencing the laws of my land.

andrew said...

Betfair is calling a 'No'

otoh
I don't particuarly miss Cumberland, Huntingdonshire, or Hereford and Worcester

and I dont suppose the scots will miss us.

Either way as has been noted, it does seem odd that people who are equivocal at best about the EU are keen on keeping Scotland in the UK.

My explanation that squares the circle is that they will narrowly vote to stay in so they can carry on moaning at us and blaming it all on a 'London Conspiracy'
And when the time time comes we will stay in the EU and moan about 'Brussels conspiracies'.


CityUnslicker said...

Cameron wants the UK to stay together so his legacy is not as being the one who lost the union and the worst ever Conservative PM.

Milliband does not want to lose the SLP and with it most of Labours core base of muppet votes.

Clegg does not know what he wants and no one cares anyway.

Salmond fancies himself as a Western Putin or Xi Ping impersonator.


They all have a common denominator - short term political gain.

A plague on all their houses would be most welcome.

Budgie said...

Andrew said: "it does seem odd that people who are equivocal at best about the EU are keen on keeping Scotland in the UK."

No, it's not odd, it's perfectly logical. The UK is a near completely integrated society. There is very little difference between England and Scotland: DNA, ethnicity, culture, language, world view, common law legal system - all nearly the same. We exist on one (small) island.

None of those factors are true, for either of us, compared with the EU itself or the vast majority of its subject nations.

I have believed for a long time that the Scot Nats will prevail, and Scotland will secede. However the reality is that Scotland cannot be independent within the EU. Scotland (and the UK) would have independence only out of the EU.

BE said...

Andrew it's the victim mentality. Greek voters did not blame their elected representatives who lied to get into the Euro, then pissed the borrowed money up the wall leaving the country bankrupt, the voters blamed Angela Merkel and the nasty Germans.

The Scots do not blame their loyal tradition of unquestioning election of hard-left Westminster MPs, their Scotch born architects of the UK's financial failure, they blame the system, and the evil Tories, which is code for The English. UKIP are not much different: they see conspiracy to overthrow Britain from abroad when the reason we tend to do badly in negotiations is that we elect people who refuse to play the game.

Anonymous said...

BE - you're only seeing half of it.

The political left peddles the victim status. So much easier to say I'm poor, fat etc because of something else rather than take a look in the mirror.

Look at Glasgow - so enfeebled, that the life expectancy is higher in Albania..

I pray the Scots leave, Salmond goes into full on leftie twat mode and watch from the sidelines as they crater the economy.

Then maybe some of the lefties might wise the fuck up...

Electro-Kevin said...

We're talking two bald, socialists fighting for a comb.

The art of socialism is to implement it using OTHER people's money, not your own.

I fail to see how a Yes vote achieves this.

Pure antipathy towards the English it is then.

CityUnslicker said...

comments today here are fabulous, really enjoyable and insightful - not that you are not always, but especially so today!

MyToldYouSoName said...

@Cu - Bunch of arse, man!
You sound like someone admiring the echo of his own fart.

Scotland might go tommorow, it depends on whether the SNP can get the vote out. So far they are following the Sinn Fein model of 'jam tommorow', help filling in registration forms and chest-thumping for the gullible.
The final string in the bow - and I'd bet they have this in hand - is actually getting the people to the polling booth in the morning.
A lift to the pool booth and some free tea and biscuits works wonders.

If Scotland votes 'Yes' it will be an unmitigated disaster for England. Firstly the govt must fall. All three party leader must go and elections called. This will leave Farage as the most experienced party leader!! Can you imagine!!!

Now Farage has played a clever game, he can play the nationalist card because he spoke for the union. If the narrative holds he will cite Scotland as a brave example of leaving an imbalanced union. He will position himself as some sort of Alex Salmond figure, striving against the odds for the 'poor old England' that has been short-changed by its larger neighbours. The older blue rinse mob tired of little gay oxford boys running the country will vote for him and the working classes will vote for him because they have been abandoned by labour.

However the real power - the alliance of corporate interests with the permanent govt of the civil service - remains in place and continues with its policies of financial repression, goosing of asset prices and denuding of services. Until this is challanged and brought to heal the problems will remain.

The choices are 1) take them on in the streets after the next kid is killed by cops or 2) use administrative power to prevent them from appropriating assets and civil funds. Which will it be?

My money is on them being too stupid to reform (and the echo chamber of onanism here reinforces this) and the fight to increasingly come to the streets.

England ablaze by 2017-18.

cosmic said...

There are a few little questions about the consequences of a yes vote. Come March 2016, we could potentially have a foreign state, outside the EU and with a land border. It might have no or partial international agreements on all sorts of things, particularly trade.

This would be a state voted for on a questionable franchise and all sorts of unrealistic expectations. It could prove unstable.

There would be a lot of costs involved in separating it.

Possibly in the 18 months between a yes vote and the repeal of the Act of Union, it could be arranged that it entered into existence as a fully fledged member of the EU, but there are reasons to suppose that things couldn't be arranged so easily, such as were it permitted to show the way, it would fuel a number of other separatist groups. Furthermore it would be unlikely to enter on the same terms as the UK (rebate, no Schengen and no Euro) and it would probably take time.

On balance, I'd like to see a no vote, because a yes vote on Salmond's half assed basis would end in disaster and cost us dear. Then there's the prospect that our government, (the negotiational skills of which have collectively been shown to be negligible by the current business) would be off grovelling to the EU and paying a price.

Budgie said...

MyToldYouSoName, I assume your Scottish Dave Spart at-the-pub rant is pretty regular where you come from?

I especially liked the "He will position himself as some sort of Alex Salmond figure" idea. It's hilarious. I hate to break it to you, but I don't think anyone in England would want to do this. Sorry.

However your view that Scots could be bribed to vote for secession by SNP tea and biscuits is rather more bilious and patronising than even I thought Scot Nats were.

BE said...

Budgie, if you read his comments in a cartoon och-di-doch-di-doo voice they are much better.

In-glund ah-blaaaaize bah twunty suventeeeen!

TheFatBigot said...

Mr Budgie might be interested to know that Scotland is not a common law country.

Its predominant law is Civil Law from a variety of sources but significantly affected by Roman Law.

There are some areas in which common law has been adopted and developed in Scotland, but it is not a common law jurisdiction.

Ossian said...

I'm with TheFatBigot.

So near as neighbours but so little understanding of the laws, legal system, education system and values (cue the accent).

Up until recently, our representatives took their rightful place at Westminster as that is where laws were made. Now we have laws from Holyrood, Westminster and Brussels.

Westminster is increasingly looking like a spent force (cue a Nigel F voice).

It's a simple choice on influence where Westminster now has little.

As if it goes to a No, we'll see how valid the promises are. (cue Nigel voice again.

MyEarlyMorningName said...

@Budgie - as dumb as a reply can get, or can you do dumber? Lets see...

Your interpretations are juvenile, Farage is already positioning himself as a Nationalist leader looking to secede from a larger union. This is his whole schtick.
He cannot criticize Salmond/SNP without implicitly damaging himself. Lots of 'democracy in action' and 'self determination' quotes from him.

'Bribing voters'? Thus far the SNP has been hugely successful in getting voters registered. Will that translate into getting votes; only if they get them too the booths. By providing tea n biscuits and a lift to the booth they can overcome this problem and boost their vote. Without it they cannot win.

Rock solid grassroots operations are the bedrock of all nationalist movements from the Nazis to Hezbollah to Sinn Fein. That you dont know or realise this is evident in your semi-literate belligerence.

That you dont understand the Whitehall machine is to blame for this farce is about right too. Dream on, its your own country youre ruining.

Electro-Kevin said...

My Told You So Name has it absolutely right about the permanent government of the civil service. (PGCS)

I expect there is some interventionism from American Men In Black too once a newly appointed PM takes office - shown into a back room where a few home truths about our 'special' relationship are told.

At best inertia by the permanent establishment - at worst interference and downright obstruction.

UKIP won't cut it in office, but that is not the point of them.

They are the 'none of the above party - inclination right' box we should have already on our voting slips.

A statement by the people that we have them sussed.

The next truly conservative government will be under Sharia law - not common law. By which time the PGCS will have shat themselves and run.

Electro-Kevin said...

PS - Budgie has a well proven track record of predicting things correctly on this blog. I take what he/she says pretty seriously.

Budgie said...

You are wrong, TheFatBigot, numerous sources cite the Scottish legal system as either common law or influenced by common law. Hardly surprising after 300 years of union.

One such (which is promoting a "yes" vote in the referendum) is http://en.jurispedia.org/index.php/Legal_System_%28Scotland%29, which states: "The law of Scotland derives from two sources: 1. Legislation - passed by Westminster and Scottish Parliament which becomes law once it has recieved Royal Assent. 2. Common law which is derived from decisions in the courts of Scotland and of similar common law jurisdictions.

Scottish law is influenced by Roman law more than English law, but still uses both custom and precedent. It is not a codified system to the extent prevailing in France or Germany, which was my main point.

Budgie said...

YourVariedNames, I guess you are too isolated up there in Spartland to have heard the joke about the EU? It goes: the EU is so undemocratic that the EU wouldn't allow itself to become a member.

It also appears that you struggle with English, otherwise you might realise that just because the UK and the EU are both described as unions it doesn't make them the same.

You attempt to use this false premise in order to make out that Farage and Salmond are taking the same line. You have been rumbled. Moreover as a small country Spartland will be more under the thumb of the EU than ever it was dominated in the UK, and with far less democratic representation.

As for the SNP bribing Scots voters, it was you that gloated about how "A lift to the pool[sic] booth and some free tea and biscuits works wonders." The picture, as you claim, of Salmond's Scotland based on "the bedrock of all nationalist movements from the Nazis to Hezbollah to Sinn Fein" is hardly one to boast of. Good grief, maybe Raedwald is right about amputation.

hovis said...

I hope they have the heart to vote Yes, though I personaly think the silent don't knows will swing it to a No, leaving us with an openly broken settlement,( which to be fair it has been since Labour semi devolved Scotland, Wales and NI but not England.)

Funy thing is the lack of devo max on teh paper looks to have been a majot miscalculation by the fuckwits in No10. their passive-aggresive grovelling is sick making.

If yes I do fear short term for the Scots that they wont be sold down the river as the Irish have over their Fish / Oil / Banks. Oh and Salmond is not good enough to do the real radical things required.

It's tiresome that some of the the anti scottish rhetoric as rubbish as all the Braveheart bullshit emanating from the Yessie's.

Best summation yday from the daily mash
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/scotland-goes-full-scottish-2014091790696

Steven_L said...

As an Englishman working in a Scottish legal-based profession, I can perhaps clear some of this up:

1) Scots law is common law based and is more common law reliant than English law. For example the Theft Act 1968, the Fraud Act 2006, the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 and a whole raft of other staple legislation does not exist north of the border.

2) My gf works as a presiding officer in Scots elections and claims the SNP do a lot more driving little old ladies to the polling booth, tea and biscuits etc than the other parties. Whether this translates into votes is an unknown as all Scots elections are secret ballots.

Budgie said...

Steven_L, thank you.

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